Under the heading "I wish I knew"....

SahaganBeta

I wish I knew what the first full sized cartridge to be necked down to a smaller caliber happened to be and when it happened; then to become a commercially available caliber.

And just as a check on my understanding, 'caliber' always refers to the diameter of the bullet, not to the size of the cartridge holding that bullet, right?

Sahagan

jonk

I'd guess the 8mm Lebel. It was the first smokeless cartridge and to my understanding was a necked down trimmed 11mm Gras case. Granted, that was a military round.

CapnMidnight

The 38-55 was necked down to make the 30-30, 25-35, 32 special and a bunch more.
For what it's worth.
W.D.

RCrosby

To respond to the other part of your question;
Yes, caliber refers to the diameter of the bullet; for the most part.
.44 mag. bullets may be .429 or .430,
The .243 Win. and .244 both use the same diameter bullet as do the .308 Win. and all of the .300 magnums, etc.

SahaganBeta

Thanks folks;

I may be getting old, but I still love learning about stuff. And learning about guns is about as good as it gets!

Sahagan

raingauge

Well, I don't know the first necked down cases, but, the 45-70 was tapered down to the 40-65, and the 32-40's parent case is the 38-55, as well as the others mentioned above. If I remember right, the 218 Bee is a necked down 25-20 repeater case.
Thousands of cartridges out there, and 11 case holders handle the vast majority! I kinda like learning about this stuff, also.

Old Gunny

And also in .308 is the century old 30-06, and the .30WCF- all have the same .308 nominal bore dia, as do the .300 Win Mag., .300 H&H Mag. and the .300 Weatherby Mag. The first really good (thanks to a old curmudgeon gun writer from Arizona) necked-down centerfire smokeless not black powder cal. is the .270Win, which Winchester brought out in l925 with their new BA rifle, the Model 54. It is the same case length as the 30-06, but is necked down to .277- the .270 has often been (unfairly) compared to the 7mm series of calibers for a good mid-range/power round, but that is unfair, at least from the pure math standpoint, as all 7mm's are .284-Back when most ammo cos. loaded "down" their commercial 30-06 shells, they did that in part to avoid law suits (and lawyers in suits I guess)- but the .270Win. was never a military load like the 30-06, so it got loaded "up". I have a l948 "transition" Model 70 Std. Grade in .270Win. (NOT FOR SALE) with a Redfield 2x7 and if I had a $20 bill for every head of game it has dropped since it left New Haven (I'm the second owner, third owner is my Grandson-some day)I'd never bet the SuperBowl again. Just in passing, when John C. Garand started working on what later became the famous M-1, he was initially working with a .277 cartridge- Springfield Armory suggested if he wanted Army Ordance approval, he should switch to the 30-06, as the Springfield l903, the BAR and the Browning LMG's all fired that round. Good call.

Old Gunny

And also in .308 is the century old 30-06, and the .30WCF- all have the same .308 nominal bore dia, as do the .300 Win Mag., .300 H&H Mag. and the .300 Weatherby Mag. The first really good (thanks to a old curmudgeon gun writer from Arizona) necked-down centerfire smokeless not black powder cal. is the .270Win, which Winchester brought out in l925 with their new BA rifle, the Model 54. It is the same case length as the 30-06, but is necked down to .277- the .270 has often been (unfairly) compared to the 7mm series of calibers for a good mid-range/power round, but that is unfair, at least from the pure math standpoint, as all 7mm's are .284-Back when most ammo cos. loaded "down" their commercial 30-06 shells, they did that in part to avoid law suits (and lawyers in suits I guess)- but the .270Win. was never a military load like the 30-06, so it got loaded "up". I have a l948 "transition" Model 70 Std. Grade in .270Win. (NOT FOR SALE) with a Redfield 2x7 and if I had a $20 bill for every head of game it has dropped since it left New Haven (I'm the second owner, third owner is my Grandson-some day)I'd never bet the SuperBowl again. Just in passing, when John C. Garand started working on what later became the famous M-1, he was initially working with a .277 cartridge- Springfield Armory suggested if he wanted Army Ordance approval, he should switch to the 30-06, as the Springfield l903, the BAR and the Browning LMG's all fired that round. Good call.

sandwarrior

Geeez...Old Gunny we heard you the first time.[:D][}:)][:D]

I'm going to go with the Lebel, it went commercial not long after it went military. That was 1888. Most of the cartridges named were made in the mid to late '90's. Big exception, which is a favorite of mine, is the .218 Bee which was introduced in 1938. Everything I've read seems to me to be that the Lebel made it out before the 1888 German 8mm (then in .318")Necked down from 11 mm and the Swiss 7.5mm of 1889(then in .304")necked down from 10.45mm. I can say that Mauser definitely made a bigger dent in the sporting world in the early 1890's when he necked down the Mauser case to make the 7mm and 6.5's respectively.



The development of the 30-03/30-06 was the direct result of what the 7mm Mauser did to us militarily.

EDIT:

Since I'm sure a few of you have read this...I at least stand corrected to the 38-55 which came out four years before the 1888 Lebel. I was thrown thinking it came out in the model 94...but it was chambered in Sharps/Shuetzen style rifles before they came along.

dtknowles

If we are not limited to smokeless powder cartridges then I think the .577/450 Martini-Henry might be one of the earliest, it is a centrefire round used by the British and British Empire militaries, I would not guess when or if it was ever a commercial cartridge but the British militay used it at least as early as 1879. This cartridge is also sometimes known as 11.43x60R. The .577/450 was based upon the .577 Snider cartridge, necked down to a nominally .45 calibre bullet, giving the cartridge a "bottle-necked" appearance.

Tim