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Sideways bullet

The other day A freind and I were out shooting he shot a 50gr V-max I had loaded up and it put a hole in the target that was shaped like the side profile of the bullet What in the world would cause something like this tp happen?

Maybe I will take picture of the target and post it so you can see it

Comments

  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Called keyholing.

    The bullet wasn't stabilized properly for some reason. Could be bullet diameter, weight, rifling twist, bullet profile, velocity, powder type, etc. Lots of variables.
  • ChetStaffordChetStafford Member Posts: 2,794
    edited November -1
    Win. case
    50gr Vmax
    28.3gr 748
    fed 205
    Savage model 10 1-9 twist

    I looked at the target again and it had a very slight key hole out of my rifle also a Rem 700 1-12 twist makes me think there was something wrong with the bullet because this load used to shoot very well out of my rifle
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm assuming it's a .223? If not, has this load shot well in extreme cold temps before? I say cold because we are having quite the cold snap. If not you would need to check the inside of your barrel and see if it needs cleaning. Or,... if the lands are worn out. Those would be the only things I can think of right off the top of my head.
  • ChetStaffordChetStafford Member Posts: 2,794
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    I'm assuming it's a .223? If not, has this load shot well in extreme cold temps before? I say cold because we are having quite the cold snap. If not you would need to check the inside of your barrel and see if it needs cleaning. Or,... if the lands are worn out. Those would be the only things I can think of right off the top of my head.




    Sandwarrior,
    yes it is a .223 and it was cold and I don't remember ever shooting this load when it was cold

    I took another look at the target it looks like my rifle did not keyhole but the one fired from my buddies rifle flew through the target completely sideways.
    [img][/img]target001.jpg
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    csjs1194,

    Normally I wouldn't say that the 50 would not be stabilized out of a .223 case at any normal velocity. However, a light load in extreme cold will make the ignition speed go way down. This might be on the edge of stabilization. Although, when I thought of my first post and it being a 50 gr. it shouldn't matter that much. I stabilize 50 gr. bullets from my 1-12" twist .222 Rem in a 10" contender barrel, going 2k fps. It's probably the barrel being dirty.

    How many bullets did that? Every one of his?
  • ChetStaffordChetStafford Member Posts: 2,794
    edited November -1
    No this was the only one.

    This was a maximum load in the Hornady manaul I have chronographed this load out of my rifle witch has a 26" tube at 3600+
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    DEFECTIVE bullet or the case /powder charge was some how damaged during you loading . Some times long grain powders will BRIDGE in the charge tube of the powder measure.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He's shooting 748 which is a ball powder so bridging is eliminated.

    It could have been a bad core squirt, core seating, an air bubble in the core or some variable in the thickness of the jacket or the plastic tip. any of these are likely especially considering that this is the only event.

    Best.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree,..it was a bullet issue or something else,..not the rifle or load.
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    The 50gr-V-max might be too short to stabilize in that fast twist. You might look for a longer bullet in that weight to try.
  • 5mmgunguy5mmgunguy Member Posts: 3,853
    edited November -1
    I have seen overstabilized bullets come apart, but I have never seen them tumble. I had people put a bullet through my target after they hit the ground and those went through sideways. Were their others shooting? You may have had a bad bullet. I would shoot more to see if you can get a repeat. Doubt if you will.
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you still have bullets left from that lot, I'd weigh each before reloading.
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have experienced this before but only when it was raining. Not a very common occurence, have had bullet pass through a raindrop and destabilize enough to keyhole. It also was .223Rem..



    Reply to RCrosby

    I take it you have not shot very many fast movers in the rain. On the lower velocity or larger caliber bullets a bullet passing through a drop of rain can have its momentum and trajectory destabilized and begin to tumble. And on the smaller caliber and fast movers it can actually make them explode. Some times it is actually very entertaining to watch a bullet travel down range in the rain. If it is a humid day or misting you can actually watch the entire vapor trail and when a bullet hits a drop of rain it almost looks like a small puff of smoke. It is not like a drop of rain has enough force to knock a bullet straight to the ground but just enough to upset it. Look at how much effect a light wind has on a lightweight, small caliber bullet
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not trying to be a smartass here, but I'm curious about the "bullet keyholes after hitting raindrop" idea. What's the evidence for this?
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jtmarine0831,

    "...have had bullet pass through a raindrop and destabilize enough to keyhole."

    This is untrue. Rain does not destabilize spin stabilized bullets. This is not to say that some other problem may have caused your keyhole but it was not the rain.

    "I take it you have not shot very many fast movers in the rain."

    Yes I have, thousands of times and I have yet to have a spin stabilized bullet become unstable and leave a keyhole in the target. I shoot at 1,000 yards during some competitions when it's raining and I nor any other competitors have seen keyholes caused by rain striking a bullet. Believe me, these target are scrutinized by the pit crews and judges far more than just a casual assessment.

    Yes I've seen vapor trails in humid conditions. Yes I've seen little puffs under two sets of circumstances. One was water vapor and the bullet made it to the target and left a round hole while the other was a bullet fired at a velocity too high for that bullet to stay together. It never reached the target because it came apart.

    Spin stabilized bullets will become slightly erratic when their velocity falls into the trans-sonic range and the bullets can get squirrelly. The bullets can become unstable in the sub-sonic range.

    The effects of wind on spin stabilized bullets follow the rules of Bernoulli's Principles. Simply, this has to do with areas of high and low pressure and lift. It has no reference to rain.

    You need to read "How Bullets Fly" to get the best information and develop your own understanding.

    Best.
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the references to check out nononsense! Ofcourse my asumptions of the reasons I have had keyholes are why I have described it the way I have. I have only experinced this issue while shooting in the rain with my 222Rem., 223Rem., and 22-250. Never with my larger cals(7mmMag, 308, 30-06) and never on any other day that has not been raining quite heavily. I wasn't disagreeing with the other issues such as case, twist, rifling, powder etc., because I have seen some of these factors cause a keyhole. And the reference to the wind drift, I was using this as an example of how a small force can effect an object. I should have stated that these were my opinions on why I believed that I had experinced this issue, I didn't mean it to sound that it was a solid fact as to why, so my apologies.

    On that note nononsense, is there any reasoning that you maybe able to provide me on why I only see this issue with my smaller cals on rainy days and not under any other conditions? I am always insearch of information or explaination on just about everything I can thank of. I love outside opinions and knowledge, it helps me look at things from a different point. Again, Sorry and Thanks!
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