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skeet shooting question
slim chris
Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
I am a growing skeet/5 stand sport shooting enthusiast, and have a silly question: what would be the most appropriate, most fairly priced over/under shotgun on the market for sport shooting, but that I could also occasionally use for dove/quail hunting? The two most important factors to consider are these: price (under $1800 and 20gauge)
Thanks
Thanks
Comments
Since you have this post in the competition area I assume you wish to "keep score" at some point. There are several good auto's but most don't use them due to feed on reloads and a missed feed can cost you a match, therefore O/U offer "sure fire" (if it closes it fires)and the ability to use two choke offerings.
Many good O/U's as listed above. I believe the best "bang" for the buck right now is the SKB 585 or a higher grade CZ. May come down to "what you like" instead of $.
Good luck
what is the benefit for shooting a 12 vs. a 20ga? Is it just the number of pellets? and if so, is it a sizable enough of a difference to make a noticeable impact on my shooting? As of now I am a sworn 20ga man, and have no burning desire to go the 12 route, but I seem to notice that it feels like the majority of folks on the range are shooting the bigger bore guns. Advice?
I shoot alot of skeet with a Ruger Woodside ( 26" 12ga. ) and love it. Before I got the Ruger I was shooting an SKB model 505 with 28" barrels in 12 ga. , I like them both , but if I had to let one go , I would keep the Woodside .
But like MK19 stated ,shotgun shooting is all about how the firearm fits the shooter. You can pay BIG BUCKS on a fancy O/U , but if it don't fit , you ain't hittin slimee [:o)]
Most fellas at the range are usally more then happy to let a fello shooter fire a few rounds to see if you like what their shooting , to check for fit . Just remember , your spending some big dollars on a nice O/U , don't be in a hurry , look around and fire a few before you buy . Also , don't turn your nose up at a good used model , alot of others rush in to buy , only to find out the gun didn't fit and traded for a different one , thier loss could be your gain [;)]
Just my humble opinion [8)]
what is the benefit for shooting a 12 vs. a 20ga? Is it just the number of pellets? and if so, is it a sizable enough of a difference to make a noticeable impact on my shooting? As of now I am a sworn 20ga man, and have no burning desire to go the 12 route, but I seem to notice that it feels like the majority of folks on the range are shooting the bigger bore guns. Advice?
I applaud you for sticking with the 20 gauge. There is nothing that a 12 gauge can do that a 20 can do just as well. The only purpose for a 12 gauge in shotgun sports is to cover up poor shooting with larger volume of shot. With that large volume of shot you also have an increased level of recoil that can be tiring on a shooter over a long shooting session. Some people will tell you that the 12 gauge is far more powerful than the 20, but that is not true. If you look at each indavidual pellet of shot than a 12 gauge is no more powerful than a .410. A single pellet of #8 shot that is moving at 1400 FPS will have tet same energy no matter what gauge it is fired from. The key to shooting a 20 gauge well is putting your shot charge were it belongs.
Where handicapping is done by moving you farther away from the trap house, 27 yds. back is a bit much for anything but a 12 ga.....
But for skeet a 20 would be good.
I always heard guys would start shooting skeet with a 12 ga. then as they got better, they would downsize.
The best skeet shooters were down to 28ga.
I used to shoot with a guy who almost NEVER missed at trap.
When he was asked how come he was so good, he said,"The very best trapshooters are complete morons with good hand/eye coordination."
I talked to a shooter the other day and he said there is much less difference between a 12-20 versus a 20-28, so he recommended that if wanted to really see changes I should go smaller gauge instead of bigger.
thoughts?
Advanced Member
USA
3321 Posts
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 1:55:37 PM
quote:
another basic/stupid question for the sporting world:
what is the benefit for shooting a 12 vs. a 20ga? Is it just the number of pellets? and if so, is it a sizable enough of a difference to make a noticeable impact on my shooting? As of now I am a sworn 20ga man, and have no burning desire to go the 12 route, but I seem to notice that it feels like the majority of folks on the range are shooting the bigger bore guns. Advice?
I applaud you for sticking with the 20 gauge. There is nothing that a 12 gauge can do that a 20 can do just as well. The only purpose for a 12 gauge in shotgun sports is to cover up poor shooting with larger volume of shot. With that large volume of shot you also have an increased level of recoil that can be tiring on a shooter over a long shooting session. Some people will tell you that the 12 gauge is far more powerful than the 20, but that is not true. If you look at each indavidual pellet of shot than a 12 gauge is no more powerful than a .410. A single pellet of #8 shot that is moving at 1400 FPS will have tet same energy no matter what gauge it is fired from. The key to shooting a 20 gauge well is putting your shot charge were it belongs.
larger volume of shot ????
correct me if i am wrong but 1 oz of shot out of a 12ga or a 20ga is still 1 oz of shot
correct me if i am wrong but 1 oz of shot out of a 12ga or a 20ga is still 1 oz of shot
Sorry, maybe I should have said that you have the opertunity to run larger volume of shot with a 12 gauge. A 20 gauge loadings range from 1 to 1 1/4 ounces of shot while a 12 gauge can run 7/8 to 2 1/2 ounces.
I would also reload.
Fairly expensive.
I would say you could reload for about half price.
It'd fun and you can load whatever shot,powder,primers, and wads you want.
I would stick with the 20 if I were you.
I would also reload.
at current lead prices it cost less to just buy them 12ga&20ga that is
28 & 410 you can still save alot of money.
I shoot all gages (.410 & 28 is my love)and if you are starting with one gun I would go with 12 ga. Ammo is the same cost as 20 ga. (I wouldn't reload right now for 12 or 20 since you can buy factory for less then the components)and the pattern for a 12 is a little wider (20 a little longer)which helps for beginners (IMHO). Also consider that you can get full length tubes for the lower gages to fit a 12 (yes you can get them for a 20 also, but you can never move up to 12)and you can also buy or load a lower amount of shot if you want. The recoil is not much different. While I like a 20ga, and it's not a problem to start out with, why limit yourself? I've never understood starting with a 20ga as a recommendation, have talked many people out of it, and never had one that came back with the 12 ga and didn't feel it was the right choice a year later. If I only had one for Clays and Skeet it would be a 12ga. (of course I would never just have one)
Good luck, you'll have fun
As said, if you are interested, the guys at the range will go out of their way to help you find your gun. This can be very important to find the right fit, barrel length etc.
Second, there are almost always some very good deals on used guns in new condition around nearly any range and certainly at some of your smaller gun shops. As said, don't be in a hurry and I am sure it will pay dividends.
I am 65 with bad shoulders and back. But when I decided I wanted to try this skeet game, I found a nearly new Browning 525 SC, with adjustable comb and all the chokes at about the price you mentioned. It even had a set of Brownings "liitle skeeter" tubes about 4" long for 20 ga. I used them a few times but never liked them as they are very dirty.
I now have tubes from Briley for my gun in all gauges and currently shoot almost exclusively 20 ga.
I began loading my own and enjoy not only the savings but being able to get the best loads for my gun on the pattern board. I have patterned all of my loads as well as the factory ammo that I like.
There are lots of guns available and many of them are very good quality. But the fit of the gun will be one of the most important items to consider and I agree with GeeGuy when he says hold out for the right 12 ga and then when you are ready and eventually you will be, buy the tubes for the different gauges.
Good luck, it is great sport and wonderful people most of whom will truly try to help you and you will ot have to wait for the other shoe[;)].
UncleFudd
Ill break it down into science and cost.
Science:
1. A 12ga patterns better than a 20ga because the bore dia. is bigger and less pellets deform by touching the bore as the wad travels down the bbl. This goes for any shell size. The longer, the more pellets touch the bore. This is referred to as 'shot string.'
2. Bbl length, (in addition to what was mentioned,) effects muzzle velocity. Approx. 1" = .5fps. Its one of the reasons why trap shooters have longer bbls, to get a little more umph to reach out and touch the target at long distances.
3. Much like a blackpowder gun, the powder is of no use if it doesn't burn in the bbl. If you shoot bp, you'd see a lot of people test fire a gun with a blanket in front of the bore. They will gather up the unburned powder and determine what is not needed and reduce the next shot until they get a perfect blend of bbl length to powder ratio. Same with shotguns. You cant see it, but sometimes powder leaves the bore still burning. You will see this at night if you shoot night targets. Also too, powder burned out before reaching the end of a bore has just the opposite effect, pressure is lost and performance is hindered.
4. Factories design guns to incorporate the most common ammo. You will notice most guns today are 28".
5. You will also note that modern skeet shooters that shoot 32" bbls also tend to shoot heavy field loads where MV in access of 1450fps. See the correlation? New skeet shooting trends are to swing less and just point and shoot. The shot gets to the target instantly, and with a full choke in skeet, no leads are needed. Its just touch the target with the front bead and fire.
Cost:
1. Today, after initial cost is factored in, the cheapest shell to fire in the long run if you reload is 410. 1/2oz of shot is cheaper than 1oz or 1 1/8oz of lead. Its almost a 2 to 1 ratio from 12ga.
2. A typical 20ga shell holds 7/8oz of lead on average. Today, one can buy 12ga rounds that fire only 3/4oz and have less kick than a 20ga. Coupled with the low recoil, less lead, and better patterning of the 12bore, if you learned to reload, the 12gauge is still the best round if having to choose between 20 or 12.
3. Fyi, a 28ga hull holds 3/4oz of lead. 28ga is 3 times the cost of 12ga. Shooting 12ga 3/4oz loads instead of 28ga will be a huge savings in the long run.
4. In some cases, its cheaper to buy factory rounds than to reload. Shop around. Personally, i'd go with 12ga. in a 28" bbl.
i know its not what you wanted to hear but i hope this helps.
as far as a gun goes, get a gun you wont be afraid to drop in the field, and lean against a fence on the skeet range. thats what i would suggest.[;)]
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
where are you getting your 12ga 3/4oz reloading data from?
I am very interested, I currently reload 12ga w/ 7/8oz shot but slow 1150-1250 fps
I still manage to hit 19-20 most of the time
22-23 on good days
and on bad days ####???
lets just not go there[B)]
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.