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Lilja VS Krieger...Personal Observations...

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
edited December 2005 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
Recently, I've had the painstaking pleasure of breaking in two new tubes, a Lilja and a Krieger. Both barrels were button rifled barrels. The Krieger was a heavy barrel and the Lilja was a medium weight barrel. The Lilja tube was at least 10 times easier and quicker to clean between shots and the bore actually looks much smoother than the Krieger tube. The Krieger tube is NOT one of their machined tubes, so this comparison is between two button rifled barrels. I would even go so far as to say that the Lilja tube cleaned quicker from the very start, than the Krieger tube cleaned after being broken in. How this all relates to the accuracy between the two barrels, I cannot tell you.?.? One is a medium weight tube and the other is a heavy weight barrel. All I do know is that the bore seems to be much smoother in the Lilja tube than the Krieger. The Krieger is giving me <3/8" groups, so I really cannot complain though[:)] It's just that the break in process is SOOOO much easier with the Lilja barrel. Just thought I'd pass along my observations on these two barrels.

Eric
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Comments

  • SnellstromSnellstrom Member Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Eric, always good to hear someones experiences. Knowing what you now know would you buy the same barrels again or do something else?
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Snellstrom
    Thanks Eric, always good to hear someones experiences. Knowing what you now know would you buy the same barrels again or do something else?


    Both are good barrels, but I'm sold on Lilja right now...can't complain about the Krieger though.

    Eric
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Eric,

    Please bear in mind that I'm not picking on you at all.

    I guess that I need a little clarification regarding your experience. In the first place Krieger Barrels, Inc. doesn't make button rifled barrels, but their secondary company Criterion Barrels, Inc. does but only for OEM use. Here is a blurb from the Krieger website:

    "Q: Why is there some confusion that we might do button rifling?

    A: In 1999, we started another barrel company Criterion Barrels that manufactures button rifled barrels for the O.E.M. market. These barrels are not directly for sale to the general public. Recently there have been some magazine articles written regarding this company which has caused some confusion. Be assured that when you order a Krieger Barrel, you are getting a single-point cut-rifled Krieger Barrel."

    Now, since you say that this is a button rifled barrel, it has to be mounted on a primary manufacturer's rifle such as Weatherby, who uses the Criterion barrels. Please fill us in on the details.

    I've known John Krieger and Dan Lilja for a little more than 10 years and if there has ever been a problem with a Krieger barrel or a Lilja barrel, John and Dan will stand behind it. Since I can't get a hold of a Criterion without buying a rifle that I don't want, I can't say what he would do about it. My guess would be that the primary manufacturer would be responsible for poor quality and any complaints would have to go through them.

    I'm not discounting your experience, we need some more information.

    Thanks!


    rifleman.gif
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    NN...you are correct. This Krieger tube is off of a Weatherby SVM. It is still advertised as a Krieger barrel. I have no complaints here...other than the bore being rough and the tight spot about 1" from the muzzle (and the tight spot could actually be contributing to the accuracy of the tube). I just noted the fact that the Lilja tube was a WHOLE lot smoother than the Krieger tube. The Lilja tube was ordered for a custom rig I had built. For a factory rifle, I cannot complain much about the Krieger...it is a bear to clean though. I have well over 100 hours breaking it in, and it still is tough to clean...usually takes several applications of Sweets to get all of the copper out.

    I was just passing along an observation. Please do not take offense. That's one of the reasons I pointed out the fact that I was comparing the Krieger button rifled barrel and not the machine cut barrel.[:)]

    Eric
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would chaulk that up to one barrel vs another. I have had barrels from one manufacturer that "went to sleep" in 10rnds,..and some that took 80-90rnds. Every barrel is different, but if accuracy is there, don't mess with what ain't broke[;)] There aren't any flies on either a Kreiger or a Lilja tube, if I could afford a tractor trailer load of each just to "have around", I would in a heartbeat.

    I had one tube that would foul in 10rnds[:0] due to it being overly smooth. After some lapping, it was 10x better and has gone 1/2" at 200yds in a little #5 contour. Try some non-embedding lapping compound for a few treatments and see if your tube doesn't free right up.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Eric,

    Between you, me and the hole in the wall, it will take a heck of lot more than a barrel problem to offend me. My skin is a bit thicker than that! [:D]

    It sounds to me like someone in the lapping department had a bad day and then QC didn't catch the problem.

    That Weatherby SVM barrel is fluted also, isn't it?

    The correct sequence of events used to produce a fluted barrel originally is to drill, ream one short of finished bore diameter, flute the barrel then pull the final reamer through the bore and then pull the button through. That way, the fluting doesn't distort the final bore/groove relationship. Fluting done out of that sequence leaves the bore and grooves distorted from the impact of the fluting cutter. Folks that flute barrels after rifling usually try to lap the daylights out of the interior trying to alleviate the tight and loose spots that are a result of rifling after fluting. The dimensional difference between the bore diameter and the groove diameter is not consistant. It's smooth but not consistant.

    Barrels from the same batch of steel can have metallurgical variances also. Hard spots, soft spots, voids, et al. that contribute to the interior finish or lack thereof. I've shot two barrels from the same batch of steel, same button or cutter head, same type of receiver, same load and bullet only to get 150 FPS difference over the chronograph on the same day. I can justify a 25 or 30 FPS. difference but not 150 FPS. when everything is supposedly the same. It's the barrels, they aren't the same for some reason.

    I would lap the SVM VERY CAREFULLY as JustC suggested but stay off the crown and out of the throat. Measure the two points and mark them on your cleaning rod that you're using to lap.

    Best.

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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I would lap the SVM VERY CAREFULLY as JustC suggested but stay off the crown and out of the throat. Measure the two points and mark them on your cleaning rod that you're using to lap.
    Best.


    I think I'll probably leave good enough alone![^][:)] I'd hate to screw up a good shooting gun...and have to rebarrel it and start all over again.



    Eric
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