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A question on gun for elk and deer.

GriffGriff Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
Ok, some prelim first where I elk hunt the law requires at least 30 caliber gun.

I hunt both Elk and deer. Shot my first deer last weekend during a special doe hunt.[:D] using a .243 nice gun.

I was also recently given a vintage mauser 7mm cera 1891. Which was cut down to a 22" berral. The Mauser is old and I plan on taking it to the local gun smith before I use it to make sure its in full working order.

What I need to know is what type and model of gun I could use for both deer and elk. I prefer the Bolt action type.

Or if the old Mauser would work?

Comments

  • dcso3009dcso3009 Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can't go wrong with almost any 30 caliber. My preference would be a 30-06. It is and has been the most popular big game round for almost 100 years! There are other more modern calibers that will hit harder and shoot flatter than the '06 but they would be overkill on deer.
    With that reccomendation you really should shoot permium bullets for the larger game. I shoot Barnes TSX 150gr for all my hunting ammo. I have not had anything but tremendous results.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Griff,

    If your 'old Mauser' that you refer to is the M1891 Argentine from the Experts forum then you should be all set. The bullet diameter for your rifle is either 0.311", 0.312" or 0.313" when translated from metric (7.65mm) to English. You need to slug the bore of your rifle to determine what diameter bullets to buy if you can reload. Otherwise you will have to check the manufacturers to see what diameter bullets they use for factory cartridges. Then test a few of each for accuracy.

    The 7.65 x 53 is fairly similar to the .308 Win. if you want use something more familiar to compare it to. For elk hunting, you will want to have a slightly heavier bullet than you might use for deer hunting. Bullet weights of 175 gr. or heavier would be appropriate.

    Best.

    rifleman.gif
  • GriffGriff Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes that is the gun. I just trying to figure out what I should do. Would the local gun smith know the correct loads for the mauser?
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Griff,

    Do you mean "... the correct loads" or do you mean the correct bullet diameter.

    If he doesn't know the correct loads then we can figure it out for you, or help you figure it out for yourself. He should be able to slug the bore and measure the slug to tell you what bullets to order or what ammunition will have the correct bullet diameter. Please clarify what you mean.

    Best.

    rifleman.gif
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I recommend a .300 Win Mag...it's a little overkill for whitetail, but it gets the job done, with no loss of meat as long as your shot placement is good. It will also perform extremely well at longer ranges. Some folks don't like the recoil, but that's not really a factor with me. Another benefit of the .300 is that you can use it on any big game found in North America...and I would VENTURE to say the world, but I've never had any experience hunting game in Africa, etc. I love it on whitetails b/c of it's long range capabilities. Just my .02[:)]

    Eric
    allamericanarmsco@frontiernet.net

    All American Arms Company

    www.galleryofguns.com
    VIP Code: AAAC

    Veteran Owned and Operated
  • earlwellmanearlwellman Member Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree on the .300 win mag, I have been able to load it to good use in 190 grain for elk or 150 grain for whitetail. Alittle recoil to it but it only hurts at the bench. If you can handle the kick with no flinch, the range and power will impress.[8D]
  • jasonjenningsjasonjennings Member Posts: 87 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most 30's would do the trick! I Like the '06, it will be fine on both elk and deer. The magnums kick harder but youget more uuummmfff! on the receiving end. I would pick 180 grain bullets for both and then you don't have to re-adjust your scope all the time. just sight it in and practice till you know the gun well!
  • elkoholicelkoholic Member Posts: 5,130
    edited November -1
    I've taken elk with both the 06 and the 300 Win. mag both with 180 gr. premium bullets. I like the added range of the 300 mag but disciplined shot selection and good bullet placement make the 06 a deadly 250 yd elk rifle. I worry that the 300 mag is too much for deer at short ranges. As recommended above, go with the 06, 180 gr.

    BTW, this is my first post, I think I'm going to like this place.
  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I used the 180gr GrandSlam bullet on a bull at 304 yds, using a Tikka Whitetail Hunter in 30-06. For me, 300 yds is the maximum effective range on elk with the 30-06. I had very good penetration at that range. As others have already said, if you want to be able to stretch your range beyond 300 yds, go with a Magnum 30 cal. The 300WinMag has been around a long time and is a great cartridge. Stepping up from there, you could go with 300WeatherbyMag or 300RUM. If you want to pay around $100 for a box of ammo, get a rifle in 30-378, which will give you a very fast 30 cal bullet.

    roysclockgun
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yeah but the 30-378 is only about 100fps faster than the RUM which costs 1/3 as much for ammo.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JustC did write: " yeah but the 30-378 is only about 100fps faster than the RUM which costs 1/3 as much for ammo.f"

    I am not a proponent of the 30-378, however I watched a gent at the range shoot one. He claimed MV using 180gr bullet was 3800fps. I would think that a 300RUM with the same weight bullet could probably be tweeked up to 3400fps. No?
    In 2002 one of the men in my elk hunting camp was carrying one of those 30-378 rifles. His cartridge dwarfed my 300RUM cartridge. Not surprisingly, he was from Texas and also carried a pair of those range finding binoculars that felt like they weighed 10 lbs.!!
    Maybe some folks can consistant make 1000 yard shots, where the game does not even know that hunters are in the county. I am not convinced that doing so makes for the best hunting. But, to each his own.
    Some where along the line those "only about 100fps faster" cartridges add up to a lot more MV then the older cartridges. If that is not important, to always seek faster and better, then we can all go back to using muzzle loading flintlock smooth bore firearms for all of our hunting. In it's day, the 30-30 carbine was a great cartridge/rifle combo. I'm sure that many elk and bear were taken with the 30-30, simply because that is what the man had! A fair number of more efficient cartridges have come along that push the 30-30 back into a by-gone era, even though it is still a great deer getter in the eastern US woods.
    Since the advent of the 8x57mmSpitzer "S" bullet, which gave birth to the 30-06, there have not been many earth shaking developements. Certainly, newer, faster and more powerful cartridges have been introduced. But those improvements have, for the most part, only stretched effective range and knock down power. It can still be said, that given the optimum loading, the 30-06 is adequate for any game animal in North America and in most of the rest of the world.


    roysclockgun
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by roysclockgun
    JustC did write: " yeah but the 30-378 is only about 100fps faster than the RUM which costs 1/3 as much for ammo.f"

    I am not a proponent of the 30-378, however I watched a gent at the range shoot one. He claimed MV using 180gr bullet was 3800fps. I would think that a 300RUM with the same weight bullet could probably be tweeked up to 3400fps. No?
    In 2002 one of the men in my elk hunting camp was carrying one of those 30-378 rifles. His cartridge dwarfed my 300RUM cartridge. Not surprisingly, he was from Texas and also carried a pair of those range finding binoculars that felt like they weighed 10 lbs.!!
    Maybe some folks can consistant make 1000 yard shots, where the game does not even know that hunters are in the county. I am not convinced that doing so makes for the best hunting. But, to each his own.
    Some where along the line those "only about 100fps faster" cartridges add up to a lot more MV then the older cartridges. If that is not important, to always seek faster and better, then we can all go back to using muzzle loading flintlock smooth bore firearms for all of our hunting. In it's day, the 30-30 carbine was a great cartridge/rifle combo. I'm sure that many elk and bear were taken with the 30-30, simply because that is what the man had! A fair number of more efficient cartridges have come along that push the 30-30 back into a by-gone era, even though it is still a great deer getter in the eastern US woods.
    Since the advent of the 8x57mmSpitzer "S" bullet, which gave birth to the 30-06, there have not been many earth shaking developements. Certainly, newer, faster and more powerful cartridges have been introduced. But those improvements have, for the most part, only stretched effective range and knock down power. It can still be said, that given the optimum loading, the 30-06 is adequate for any game animal in North America and in most of the rest of the world.


    roysclockgun


    The Hornady Reloading Manuals show max muzzle velocities for both calibers at 3200 fps with a 190 gr round. I don't have time to check my other manuals, but I'd be willing to bet they are very close. They both show 3000 fps for a 220 gr. Almost identical ballistics. The advantage the 300 RUM has is that it is not designed around the freebore concept. I would that you might be able to get more MV out of the 300 RUM if you pushed it some. Weatherby loads are usually just about as hot as you can get...and much less accurate.

    I'd stay the hell away from that guy getting 3800 fps out of his 30-378...he'll probably blow the rifle up.[;)]...and you don't want to be there when it happens.

    Eric
    allamericanarmsco@frontiernet.net

    All American Arms Company

    www.galleryofguns.com
    VIP Code: AAAC

    Veteran Owned and Operated
  • sam77757sam77757 Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have used a 300 win mag for about 4 years now and wouldnt trade it for the world.its an old savage 110 with ported barrel not much recoil at all plus the long range aspect of it is with a good scope and the right shot placement dear/elk/moose and anything in between dont have a prayer... last year i used it for my longest shot to date with a clean kill(no tracking involed) 580 yards just to prove to some friends that said it wouldnt reach that it would and wouldnt ya know it it did!!won 50 bucks and enuff meat to eat for a few days.. minus one front shoulder...[:D]
  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No way a 30-378 is doing 3800fps with a 180gr bullet with a typical barrel ( or any barrel for that matter ). People can and do claim things like this all the time but talk is cheap. -- I've done extensive handloading work on two 30-378s for a good friend and clocked many loads, and in my opinion that cartridge is a waste of powder for very little gain. It takes about 30% more powder than a regular 300 Weatherby for a velocity gain in the real world of about six percent on average. Not much of a return on investment. -- Weatherby usually lists velocity for factory ammo ( which is loaded hot ) at around 3450fps with a 180gr bullet and it generally doesn't clock nearly that fast out of factory guns outside of the ballistics lab without a pressure test barrel. -- Look in the Hornady Manual #6 at the comparision of the 30-378 in a Weatherby Mark V rifle vs the 300 Rem. Ultra Mag in a Remington 700. With 180gr bullets the 30-378 makes it to 3300fps with three tested powders and the 300 Ultra makes it to 3300fps with three tested powders also. They don't show anything faster for the 30-378 than 3300fps out of a hunting rifle.And the newest Nosler manual shows them both even slower than that. They can be loaded faster as I have seen clocked handloads for both over 3400fps in the guns I tested but neither is an efficiant round. Plus the 300 Ultra is a more inherently accurate round. -- And neither one will kill anything a 300 Weatherby or a 300 Winchester can't do in the game fields. -- Sorry for the rant but I get tired of people making outrageous claims about their pet guns in hunting camps.............[8D]
  • roysharoysha Member Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where do you live that requires by law that 30 caliber is minumun? That is the STUPIDEST law I have heard of in a while! The day a 30-30 out performs a 25-06, 270 WIN, or 7mm Magnum, will be the day I sell everything and become a vegetarian!!! Might even quit drinking beer! NOT!!

    "What you do ultimately means nothing, and you could be replaced tomorrow by the first passing cretin." Corinne Maier
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    roysha,

    Don't say that! Stupid laws exist. We can't afford to lose any gun advocates....let alone game eaters..

    We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
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