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Setup capable of hunting 600yards +

ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
I started this thread so we could discuss Scout's question about equipment for 600+yard hunting.

300WSM or 300win would be my choice.

I am sure JustC will jump on this in a bit, he has taken quite a bit of game at range.

Will you have to hump your rifle or will it be more stationary type of hunting?

Comments

  • bperdue21bperdue21 Member Posts: 1,457 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i think i would want a 300 ultra in the remington police sniper with a burris signature 8-32x. that is if i had to buy a factory gun and if they even still make it in that caliber.
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    300UM is good but a barrel burner. 1500 rounds tops I think out of a factory barrel.

    I think to take game at ranges like 600yards under different field conditions one would have to spend a lot of time on the range practicing. Barrel life would go pretty fast then.

    Glass would be NXS.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for replying,

    I want something I can hump with. I hope to be able to do a wide range of hunting the next 15 years or so and would really just like to have one rifle that I know real well. I'll be hunting the plains, the mountains, and what ever Alaska has to offer. I know I may need to get a large bore at some point maybe a 375 H&H. But I would like my every day rifle to be large enough to handle a big bear if it had to. That's why I'm thinking of a 300 mag. I'm looking for 600 yards max in good conditions. I have shot 400 plus yards and killed a buck once several years ago (my last day to hunt that season). My buddy has a 300 wby in a remington 700 I really like, but ammo is expensive and limited. I haven't hand loaded but I could start if I had to. The 300 wsm has the short action and handles well (what I've looked at anyway), but you can buy 300 win mag ammo anywhere. Barrel life is a consideration.
  • shootlowshootlow Member Posts: 5,425
    edited November -1
    Sako TRG-42 in .338 lapua [:D][:p][:p][:p][:p]
    that will do it
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Then again what optics, needs to be hunter friendly and enough clarity and power to make a long shot, I'll need a variable for the low power end. I'm looking hard at the 4200 bushnel because of the rain guard coating. But I don't know if it has the optics for what I want. Anybody with experience in this plase respond and help me out.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I'd go with a .300 Win Mag. It will outperform the WSM further down range. I'd also take it over the Weatherby Mag. Weatherby calibers are designed around the freebore concept and in most cases are less accurate than tradtional calibers. The .300WM will do anything you want to do with it...if you really want the Weatherby ballistics, just get the Mag Ackley Improved. As for optics, go with Night Force or IOR if you can afford them....if not, a Leupold VX-III will fill the bill. I'd definitely go with at least a 6.5-20X50mm with a 30mm tube. Good luck.
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Scout,

    The 4200 is a pretty nice scope, my buddy has one and doesn't complain much about it but for long range shooting you need to be able to adjust your windage and elevation unless you are EXTREMELY good at hold overs and hold unders. At 600 you will have to crank up your elevation to make precise hits on animals.

    I think a Leupold Mark 4 4-14X will be the SHIZZLE for what you want to do.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have no problems taking game with my 4-16x44mm Burris signature once I got my load worked out.

    Caliber at 600yds can be dropped back considerably for such things as whitetail. I shoot at them with everything from 6.5x55 on up to 300RUM and soon 338RUM. The bullet will do it's job at 600yds, you just need to get it there.

    a Sendero in a magnum caliber, even short mag, a good peice of $500-?? glass, strong mounts and rings and the best ammo you find unless you load. Then go shoot from the bench until you can hold MOA out to your desired distance. MOA won't win a match but will drop a deer every day of the week. Get real world drops recorded, and have at it. A quality range finder and a good solid rest and rear bag will be necessary as well (NO WAY AROUND IT).

    The hardest part is finding time to practice and load and practice and even some practice. It takes me 1hr just to get to the range and set up my gear, that's 2 hrs both ways. Kinda makes me have to plan ahead of time to go shooting.[V]
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Or if you have to hump your rifle make sure you get a nice Harris Bi Pod with Swivel and a Pod Lock. This will allow you to adjust for CANT rapidly on uneven ground. This setup for shooting from the prone.

    And what JustC said, Practice, practice, practice. I am lucky enough to live 30 minutes from a 1K range so I get out there almost every week to shoot.

    Know your dope and limitations. Just because your rifle can shoot 1500yards doesn't mean you will hit at 1500yards.

    If you have a place to practice, buy some 6" steel AR500 plates. Cost you less than 50.00 for a few and they will take hits all day long at 600 yards even from a 300win.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Contact and others,

    Thanks for the advice, I'm just wanting to put the equipment together to do the job and then see if I'm good enough to use it. A multi adjustable bi-pod is a good sugestion. I figure if I can go 600, then I should be able to handle any situation I run across. I have been considering a 300 win mag in the Sendero or similiar rifle. Sounds like I'll have to break open the wallet for enough glass to use it. So I don't guess I'll be getting it today. One of the real draws for the 300 win is there are a lot of factory loaded bullet options. Have any of you used the remington in 180 gr swift sirroco, or the remington 180 gr swift a-frame, these 2 really seem promising
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    I have three rifles that are capable of repeated 600 yard hits. All have heavy taper 28" barrels. For smaller game there the 257 Wby; for targets theres a 30-06 and for game like elk there's the 375 RUM.
  • sendero-06sendero-06 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    scout. I own all the Rem Sendero's in the blued model. 25-06 270 7mm and the 300 win Mag. Remington has stoped making these rifles, but you can still find them. They are heavy after a long day hunting but the accuracy is worth it. I have taken elk with my 300 (longest being 410 yards)as far as the scope. Buy what you can afford. I have tasco 5x20x50 on all 4 of my sendero's and they work great. You will have to find what ammo works the best in you gun. I am pleased with Hornady custom line of ammo (150gr SST)in the 300 win mag.
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Amen to the "practice, practice, practice" and "know what you can do, under field conditions"
    To which I can only add,
    Set aside the bucks for a damn good range finder. If you're seriously considering firing at game at that range you'll need a good one. Also consider the time of flight and how far a slow moving, large animal can move in that amount of time. Personally 350 yards is about the max. I'll attempt a shot at deer sized game. Beyond that, for me, the risk of wounding game is too great. Maybe I don't practice enough.
  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want to bring game under fire at 600 yds, you need to be willing to spend more on optics then you did on the rifle. Once you are in that price range there are many fine scopes that would suit your purpose.
    When you titled your thread "Setup...", I instantly thought of the idea of setting up, looking for a 600 yd shot, as that is what the term has meant to me in the past. A friend with whom I hunted years ago, had a bull barrel .270Win with 24x Unertl scope. He used that rifle on "set ups", where he was ready to take deer out clear across a corn field, where he regularly saw bucks come to feed, just at dusk. Of course, the rifle was worthless for close passing deer.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RC you probably practice plenty if you shoot 350 and feel comfortable. I just want capable equipment and learn it. I don't like to miss or shoot more than once at anything. I will exhaust myself looking for a shot animal and I don't enjoy that so i like to make sure they are hit right. I started deer hunting again 5 years ago and, with a gun (shotgun, muzzle loader, and pistol), I've fired 22 times and killed 19 and none lost. I shot 1 twice, hit a limb once, and heaven forbid I did miss one trying to shoot a doe in the back of the head.

    Sounds like if I want a gun I can carry I may have to back off the 600 yard wish. I haven't used a highpowered rifle much, that's why I'm seeking advice. I have shot(under perfect conditions) a deer at 440 steps when I was younger and didn't know any better. model 788 remington, 243 100gr and an old weaver 3x8. I hope to sheep hunt as well as caribu in Alaska that's why the range. That and antelope. I know a good range finder is a must. I'll probably buy the best I can afford in a 4x14x50 range scope. I am about convinced on the 300 win mag due to ammo availability.

    Thanks for the advice and if anybody has more please give it.
  • roysclockgunroysclockgun Member Posts: 310 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The search for a rifle "for all seasons", that will do it all, still goes on. That said, I agree with Scout5 in believing that when you want a rifle, light enough to carry in mountains, that 600 yd clean killing shots is a bit much for most of us and for most hunting rifles. There are simply too many variables, in terms of shooting up hill or down hill, temperature, wind, lack of solid rest and not least, hunter fatique.
    Everyone says, "practice, practice", but don't neglect allowing that barrel to cool between shots at the practice range, and always get a couple fouling shots down the tube before going out to hunt. Twenty minutes is not too long between shots, if you want to find out what your rifle will really do when firing through a cold barrel. Twenty minutes is a long time to wait, so take a couple extra firearms to the range and switch off.
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know of a rig that will give you what you are looking for, light enough to carry, yet capable of making ACCURATE HITS out @ 600 to 800yards.

    I have a friend that has a Rem Model 7 Action that he had tricked out by http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/

    Barrel and action job cost him about 900.00 and 4 months of wait time if I recall. Barrel contour was a #3 22".

    Rifle is chambered in 300WSM and weighs about 7.5lbs with no optics. This includes his laminated stock that is bedded.

    I talked him into a Nightforce NXS 5-22X (He also shoots the 1000yard competition I shoot with this exact setup)

    He shoots a 200gn Nosler Accubond and shoots SUB MOA all day long out to 600yards. I was so freaking blown out of my mind that this lil LIGHT hunting gun was keeping up with my 18lbs fully custom tactical 300win with a 26" barrel. He was able to make head shots on B-27 Targets at 600yards with ease. 550yards... we were banging away on steel rams with no problems.

    This is the only rig I've seen myself that is under 11lbs with optics (NF NXS are heavy too) that is light enough and compact enough to hump all day and still make hits at extended ranges all day long.

    As for the cost. You will pay for performance.

    Action 350.00
    Stock and bedding - I think he said was 300.00 (Remington stock)
    Barrel and Action work by Krieger - 900.00
    Rings and Base - 150.00
    Scope - 1000.00

    2700.00 for the setup

    Being able to drill an Elk @600 or more yards - Priceless [}:)]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I've got a medium weight rig right now that should be good out to 1000 yards...I went with a medium weight Lija barrel b/c it's a hunting rifle. I have not started with load development yet, but I would almost guarantee you that this thing will be sub MOA at 1000 yards....I'm hoping anyway![:p][:)] It's a .300 Win AI.
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ECC,

    What kind of bullet will you be shooting?

    I am curious what a 300AI would do, my match bullet is the Berger 210VLD, KICKS *!!!!!

    I mean I hold 1/2mil at 600 yards in the wind while guys shooting 190 SMK are holding a full mil.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ContacFront
    ECC,

    What kind of bullet will you be shooting?

    I am curious what a 300AI would do, my match bullet is the Berger 210VLD, KICKS *!!!!!

    I mean I hold 1/2mil at 600 yards in the wind while guys shooting 190 SMK are holding a full mil.




    Contact...the ballistics and load data are supposed to be on par with a .300 Weatherby. I'm thinking of trying the 210VLD's. Are you seating these into the lands?...and if so, how far??? Right now, I'm just using up some old Nosler BT's to break in the barrel...it's been a very slow process b/c I'm not taking a whole block of time to do it. I'm just shooting one round each time I'm out shooting something else...then cleaning and waiting till the next time. I'm going to have to take a day sometime soon to concentrate on this thing.
  • 2BGood2BGood Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .300 RUM Will do the trick at 600 plus yards,,but if your off just a bit,,your game doesnt drop,,wow looks like one heck of a walk to harvest your animal. Remember just because you can doesnt make it right. Practice at the range for a 500 plus shot but stick to under 300 make it a hunt. If the ultra mags have a short life at say 1500 rounds i guess I should start looking for a new barrel Im going to need one 12 years or so from now.


    2B
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 2BGood
    .300 RUM Will do the trick at 600 plus yards,,but if your off just a bit,,your game doesnt drop,,wow looks like one heck of a walk to harvest your animal. Remember just because you can doesnt make it right. Practice at the range for a 500 plus shot but stick to under 300 make it a hunt. If the ultra mags have a short life at say 1500 rounds i guess I should start looking for a new barrel Im going to need one 12 years or so from now.


    2B


    2bgood, you seem to be a rifle hunter.?.?.? ...and not a long range hunter at all. I'm a bow hunter. When I truly want to "hunt" game, I bow hunt. Rifle hunting is not very challenging...until you break 500 yards...then it takes skill. Don't knock what you do not know. I've probably killed more deer with a bow than most people ever kill...I've done the same with deer over 300 yards. We all have our limits...it's good to know what they are...and to push them. Just my .02[;)][}:)][:)]
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ECC,

    The 210gn VLDs are seated pretty far out. My OAL is 3.50 at this time and they are right at the lands. From what I understand the guys shooting this bullet are having good results with them into the lands.

    I can't go too long because I need to be able to feed from my magazine.

    2BGOOD,

    As for only sticking to 300yards. That is fine if you want to shoot game at that range but some of us want a bigger challenge. 300yards is where I do load testing because I feel that is like a point blank range for me.

    1500 rounds and 12 years?!!!

    That is a lil more than what I shoot in 1 year in one of my rifles. I try to burn 100 rounds in my 308 and my 300win a month.

    Long range hunting from what Ive been taught is 90% shooting at targets and 10% at game. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
  • 2BGood2BGood Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I appreciate the comments about knowing your limits and I agree. Have hunted for many years, in many different conditions. I appreciate the skill bow hunting takes; however rifle hunting presents challenges and finesse all it's own. Personally, I prefer to hunt and track an animal and try to take a shot at a closer range - to me, that's one of the greater experiences of the hunt; rather than trying to take a shot at 500 or 600 yards. Again - I appreciate we all have our own preferences for the ways we like to hunt. That's why we all partake in the sport. My point was, based on experience, that in conditions you cannot control a 500 or 600 yard shot is a really long shot on deer sized animals, and the chances of wounding it, rather than killing it are great. Hunting in Colorado, and knowing your limitations - means if you've killed an animal at 500-600 yards, you may have a 1200 yard walk to find it; you may have to track it for some time; then don't forget getting back to camp with the animal as well.
    I appreciate that everyone has different skill levels and ways they like to hunt. Just my two cents about why that might be a tough shot. According to some industry experts, "....my own informal records of guided elk hunters show that beyond 200 yards, the probability of a fatal hit drops dramatically. Farther than that, there's only an even chance the hunter will hit vitals the size of a fruit basket. Equipment matters little. The few shooters who score consistently beyond the 200 yard mark can do it as handily with a .30-06 as with the latest super magnum. Bullets that fly fast also fly flat because gravity has little time to work on them over any given distance." (Elk & Elk Hunting by Wayne Van Swoll)

    Good hunting all.
  • 2BGood2BGood Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Back to Scouts original post. Dont know if there is a "perfect" setup. I guess it really depends on what the game is, where you will be hunting it. IE, white tail in Nebraska or Elk in the RockyMountains. Investing in a good scope will be a valuable tool something in the range of 4.5x 14 I like the 50mm (just me).
    I would choose the appropriate rife and cartride for the game.
    A Lazzeroni rifle in a 7.82mm Warbird topped with a Swarovski 6-24x scope and settled on a bipod. Perfectly capable of making lethel hits at over 500 yards.

    2B
  • mac59mac59 Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I tend to agree with 2bgood. I can hit vital sized paper targets at the range all day long at 500+ yards with my .300 Win Mag and 3x9 Leupold. Hitting game at that range with all the variables such a crosswind, elevation to your target, and the heart pounding thin air at 10,000 ft makes the shot pretty tricky. I would say, keep the wind in your face and move in another 300 yds, then take your shot.
    One shot kills only.
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mac,

    Do you not shoot with variables at the range? I do not know of a indoor range which has a 500yard lane.
    [:D]
  • bperdue21bperdue21 Member Posts: 1,457 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    how about this
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=42103014

    on top of a pac-nor barrelled/trued etc rem 700 action in 300 rum?
  • ContacFrontContacFront Member Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For the money, hard to beat that piece of glass. I have one on my 300win.
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