Stuck bullet

sirgknight

After 45 years of reloading I just had my first squib load. The primer fired but did not ignite the powder. I suspect something was in in the primer hole as powder was inside the action. Now I have a stuck golden saber bullet about half way down the barrel. Browning BDA 380. Efforts to pound the bullet out with a dowel and rubber mallet has failed. Any suggestions?

sirgknight

Has anyone ever chambered and extracted a cartridge in a rifle and have the bullit stay in the chamber? Isn't the Factory Crimp Die supposed to eliminate this from happening? To be honest, though, it was very difficult for me to determine how much crimp I was giving the ammo. The directions are very vague and merely states that maximum crimp has been achieved when the fingers are touching each other and further adjustment could lead to damage to the die, so I crimped my ammo with the beginning recommended crimp - screw die in until it touches the shell holder and turn an additional 1/2 turn. Should I go for the maximum crimp here?

awinds

Get the stuck bullet out of the bore FIRST.
Then adjust the cartridge OAL so the bullet is short of the lands.
Then crimp to your hearts content.[8)]

richbug

The stuck bullet is because you loaded the ammo too long, not because you didn't crimp enough.

Loading too long can cause pressure issues.

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by richbug
The stuck bullet is because you loaded the ammo too long, not because you didn't crimp enough.

Loading too long can cause pressure issues.


Not always true, a too soft neck (over annealed) combined with a tight leade / throat can also cause it (don't ask how I know this [:I] ) but unless the OP is annealing his necks and/or has a custom chamber it's unlikely that's his cause.

sirgknight

Come clean Tailgunner, I stuck my pride in my pocket to even ask about this. Besides, it probably happens to more than are willing to admit. This may very well give some good info to others, besides myself, who are just getting into reloading. I appreciate the honest answers and am very concerned about this dilemma. Before I started seating my bullets I took an unfired Greek round and I took a factory Winchester 150 grain round and measured them with my caliper. Amazingly they measured exactly the same, to the thousanths. So, when I started seating the bullets to my once-fired greek casings I measured them to the same length of the two factory rounds. Why would length on the reloaded round cause a problem with chambering when the two factory rounds do not? The answer to this may be too technical for this less-than-journeyman-reloader, but I hope I can learn not to repeat this problem. Thanks, everyone. Oh, by the way, I used a cleaning rod and the bullet practically fell out with on its own. No problems there, thank goodness.

charliemeyer007

Not all bullets have the same ogive. In profile the shape from point to full diameter can/is different. So the over all length does not tell you if your bullet is engageing the lands. Look at the stuck bullet for scratches.

Tailgunner1954

SK
Without knowing your die / loading setup, I can think of another way it can happen, and that is not sizing the necks enough (or at all). IOW is it possible that the necks on the greek brass are thinner? Is it possible that your expander is oversize? Is it possible that the necks are to hard and are springing back (open) to much after sizing?
You can sort through all of the above by measuring the loaded neck diameters of factory and military loaded ammo, and the loaded diameter of your handloaded ammo (both types). Also measure the fired neck diameters of both.
Once you have those "base" numbers to work with, remove your expander ball and size both types of case and measure the neck diameters. Now run those cases over the expander ball and measure again. At this point your looking to have the neck diameter be .003-.010 smaller than the diameter of a loaded neck, This is what provides the pull out resistance to the bullet.

mrbruce

About the only time I ever figured a bullet needed crimped in place was for handgun loads to keep from tying up the cylinder, and tube fed rifles...
If the bullet stays in the rifling they are more than likely long loaded, and I doubt they should be loaded that long...

sirgknight

very interesting figures:

NEW AMMO

BASE/ NECK / COLLAR / CASE LENGTH / OVERALL
HXP (72): .468 .335 .435 2.490 3.317
WIN. : .465 .335 .438 2.488 3.317

ONCE FIRED AMMO (HXP)

HXP .468 .333 .438 2.503
NO DATA ON WINCHESTER

RELOADED AMMO

HXP : .470 .333 .439 2.493 3.250
WIN : .439 .333 .440 2.491 3.250


I originally seated the bullets on the reloads to 3.317 but they did not chamber/eject smoothly so I reseated the bullets to 3.250. The recommended minimum length of this cartridge is 3.330, but even the factory loads were less than this length. Greek brass; Winchester Large Rifle Primer; Hornady 150 GR SP corelok bullets; IMR4896 powder @ 45.4 grains (lowest recommended load). What is your take on this data?

sandwarrior

I'll go with the loaded long theory. I also will say you don't need to crimp. Most standard dies will give about .006" of hold. Or, that's about how much a standard die squeezes the neck down to hold the bullet. Which is plenty of hold on a bullet. A soft neck will let go more easily, but it still means the bullet went into the lands. A cleaning rod should pop the bullet out if it is only stuck into the lands .010"-.015".

You really need to understand what Charliemeyer is saying about different ogives. Understand that the tip of the bullet never touches the rifle. The ogive first touches the rifle(lands). And, the barrel(body) of the bullet is what rides the lands as the bullet passes out of the barrel of the gun. Therefore you need to be concerned as to how far the OGIVE is back or into the lands. NOT the tip of the bullet. You can work with the tip as a C.O.A.L. only when all the bullets you are using are the same. This is when you have measured...not given a figure... for where the lands should be.

The reason that facet is so important is if for instance if you didn't stick the bullet into the lands you might have fired it and gotten a huge pressure spike. This will show up as high pressure on your cases. Worst case scenario, a damaged rifle. Some bullets you need to seat in the lands. So you need to work those up separately from same weight bullets.

EDIT:

sirgknight,

There has to be a typo there. The length you listed is .010" back from maximum length for SAAMI. I'm thinking that is maximum length and holding .010" off the lands.

haroldchrismeyer

With any new loads for a rifle I make sure I am not putting the bullet on the lands. I do this by cutting a slot in the case with a dremel tool,and inserting a bullet too far out, and then chambering the round. Then when you extract it, the bullet will be pushed in to the point it is just touching the lands. Measure overall length, and then decrease the length when you are adjusting your seating die. .010 to .050 is the normal amount to shorten the overall length.

flyingtorpedo

sirgknight,

I was flipping through my Lyman 48th book and for the 30-06 using a Hornady 150 gr soft point they have it listed at an OAL of 3.200". Thought you may find it interesting. They also have a starting charge of 46.0 grains of IMR-4895.

sirgknight

Thanks flyingtorpedo. Goes to show you the difference in someones "statistics". Think I'll invest in couple more books.

artabr

Sirgknight, I do the same as haroldchrismeyer except I don't cut my brass. I take a sized UNPRIMED case and seat a bullet long (about .030-.040 longer than stated overall length) in the case. Chamber this round in your gun. You'll have to work the bolt to close it. Remove this round and use it as a dummy to set your seating die (remember to set your die at lease .010 shorter than the dummy you just made). Write on the dummy the date,rifle, bullet make, weight & o.a.l.
Sinclair International sell a neat Bullet Comparator for $17.50 thats worth every penny. They have 2 differant sizes (item #09-600 will do cals. .224, 6mm, .257, 6.5mm, 7mm, .308 item #o9-700 will do .172, .204, .270, .308, and .338) these are stainless steel nuts with the cal. size hole in the flats of the nuts that measure the ogive of the bullet. You may want to note that even the best bullets may very as much as .05 in length in the same box. Belive it or not I measure all the bullets that I use for my target loads but it pays off. In my Rem. 40X my 5 shot small group at 100yds. is .062, thats a 1/16" group.
ART

bugmantraap

artabr, If you seat your heads long AFTER resizing them, You too will have a stuck bullet. When you crank the bolt home to seat the round the lead will engage the lands and in effect, screw into the barrel and stick there.

artabr

Bugmantraap, I do this with all my bolt guns . I also do this about every 200 rounds to check throat erosion. Your right I have had a bullet stick once or twice but its no big deal. The benefits far outweight the negatives.
Ability to track throat erosion
Ability to do away with o.a.l. and instead measure from bullet ogive
Ability to set dies with no guesswork every time

I should say that I use Bushing dies with only .002 of neck tension.

ART

moonshine

quote:With any new loads for a rifle I make sure I am not putting the bullet on the lands. I do this by cutting a slot in the case with a dremel tool,and inserting a bullet too far out, and then chambering the round. Then when you extract it, the bullet will be pushed in to the point it is just touching the lands. Measure overall length, and then decrease the length when you are adjusting your seating die. .010 to .050 is the normal amount to shorten the overall length.

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Edited by - haroldchrismeyer on 03/16/2008 05:46:48 AM



where do you cut the slot? in the neck, in the case below the shoulder??

bpost

You could be paying too much attention to theory and not enough to mechanics. If the bullet is stuck in the bore and the case is extracted then there is a possibility of some of these malfunctions.
1) too long of a round at least .200 is needed to really jamb them tight
2) too big of an expander ball, leaving a loose bullet in the case
3) too big diameter of a bullet, rare
4) Too thin case necks leaving a loose tension. (Remington brass?)
5) Case necks over annealed leaving no tension (rare)

My .02