any one heard of the 6X45MM R&D ROUND?

quickmajik

???? anyone know any ballistics or velocity info.

sandwarrior

quickmajik,

There is a case based on the 5.56x45 Nato that can push an 80 gr. bullet to 2900 fps. or a 90 gr. to 2700. You can find it in the latest Sierra reloading manual. There are a few others but I think that's the one you are talking about.

nononsense

quickmajik,

"grab a Shotgun News. (the expirimental rounds are common knowledge to anyone who reads or listens.)i try to give good info so that everyone knows and can use at they're disposal, i dont lie or talk crap to confuse people. personally i think zulu has a point to ask so that people will know more. high standards web sight is no good ive been thier so you have to pick up the june,10th issue of Shotgun news. i have no ballistic info at this time. this is the first ive heard about it being chambered by anyone."

The tone you set by your statement above seemed to indicate that you were the stand out expert on this cartridge and its development. You berated the members for not knowing about and staying on top of this failed cartridge program. Didn't Shotgun News provide any usable ballistic information? My, my, such an oversight on their part.

There are two distinctly different cartridges that use this same designator or nomenclature which is a little unfortunate when we attempt to sort out the data and information for either one. You have to be able to know which cartridge you want to discuss and we try to supply the information for you. I'm not going to get dragged into a protracted discussion with you concerning a cartridge about which you can't even provide specifics. Maybe you need to do some research? Anyway...

Here is the short version:

The two versions of this cartridge use two different parent cases: the .223 Rem. or 5.56x45mm and a modified .25 Rem. cases which is larger in diameter and has a greater case capacity. This last version should set off some alarms of recognition since this is the same path that Remington has pursued in the 6.8 SPC cartridge program. Nothing is new under this Sun.

The version that was chosen for testing in the SAW program was the larger capacity case loosely based on the .25 Rem. and probably the main reason for the death by logistics argument at that time.

The original work (SAW program) for this cartridge which was centered on the 5.56 x 45mm cartridge case started around July of 1970.

Then around July of 1971 we see the inception of the new parametric design with the program being referenced as:

6x45mm XM732

"Frankford Arsenal begins computerized parametric design analysis to design a cartridge from scratch to meet the SAW requirements. The body diameter of the final 6x45mm cartridge case is just shy of the .25 Remington (.410" vs. .422"). There are also experiments with a 6x51mm cartridge using aluminum cases."

March 1972:

"The US Army issues a "Material Need" document for a "Squad Automatic Weapon, Light Machine Gun." Development contracts for 6x45mm SAW prototypes are let to Maremont (Saco) and Ford Aerospace. A design team at the Rodman Laboratory develops their own candidate, the XM235. The goal is to procure a weapon that weighs no more than 20 lbs. when loaded with 200rds of ammo. In addition, any weapons not chambered for the 6mm SAW must provide a ball cartridge that can defeat a helmet at 800m and a tracer that remains visible beyond the same range. Gene Stoner has advised Cadillac Gage not to bother with adapting the Stoner 63 design to the new cartridge."

The cartridge that emerged from this work was the 6x45mm XM732 steel-cased round which utilized a 106-grain projectile and had a muzzle velocity of 2,500 fps.

Note also that within the context of the larger case 6x45mm SAW cartridge there are two versions:

SHORT 6 x 45mm SAW




LONG 6 x 50 SAW




This is a comparison photograph of several intermediate cartridges:




I rarely waste any time trying to read posts that are this poorly written. It usually takes too much time to figure out what folks are trying say when they can't spell and refuse to use proper punctuation and capitalization. Maybe instead of blasting out 38 posts a day, you ought to concentrate on some quality.

This will get you going. I suggest that no matter how interesting this cartridge is historically, you should consider any one of several other 6mm cartridges that are currently available and that will work through the AR-style platform. You could neck down the 6.8 SPC but there are better solutions, in my opinion. I have also made and used several rifles with the .223 Rem. based 6 x 45mm cartridge. It has a lot of flexibility without the recoil from some larger cartridges. It makes a great depredation cartridge.

Best.

quickmajik

Thank you nononesense, some guy kinda talked some crap, and i guess i went kinda ballistic. But no, i know there are lots of people who know much more then I do about ammo, firearms and pretty much everything else. I think you again for providing this info, it is much apreciated. I read an old gun book from the early 90s about R&D weapons and ammo. I havent found anything else on the suject since.

High Standard is offering a commercial upper and factory ammo. there are two posts. i'll pull it up. i'm goimg to buy one if the rounds will fit in an unmodified mag, the BC on the bullet in the pick is mind blowing. i goota go a bad storm has blown in.

quickmajik

the two loads are made by USSCO.

90gr. fmj/bt
85gr. hp/bt match

thanks, and sorry for the edge.