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Cleaning and Accuracy
.257roberts
Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
I recently purchaced a Ruger Model 77 Mark II with Heavey Target/Varment Barrel in .220 Swift. While trying to learn how to break the barrel in properly, have discovered I'm going to have to use something with abrasives in it to get the miner machining marks that are catching and holding alot of copper and powder residue in the barrel. Don't have a problem with that, my problem/question comes up with accuracy. In the process of learning about breaking in a barrel, I've been shooting this gun and getting under .5 inch groups at 100 yds. All my shots touched holes. I realize theres build up in my barrel, why was the accuracy so good? Since I've been cleaning it so in depth (nothing with abrasives yet), the accuracy has went down hill. Seems like the cleaner I get the barrel, the worse it shoots. My dad was on a rifle team in the Army, he said he was always taught not to clean so in depth, that it would ruin the zero of the weapon. Kind of makes me scared to touch my deer rifles. rifles.
Comments
I use sinlcair ring lapping compound in the barrels. However, you can also shoot and clean, shoot and clean, and eventually erosion will take the machining marks out.
Someday go out with a completly clean (totaly stripped clean) and start shooting some groups. Don't clean your barrel again until the groups start to open up again. Keep track of how many shots you've fired up to that time. This may take a few trips to the range, so don't feel you have to get it all done in one day.
Your barrel may settle down ater 3 foulers and hold for 100, or it may take 10 foulers and hold for 25 before it again needs cleaning. The only way to know is to learn what your barrel likes/needs/does
BTW, like JustC, my hunting barrels don't get cleaned until season is over, and my scope is zeroed for the spot where my cold barrel shot will hit (my second shot of a string will be about 1/2 MOA out at 10:30 and the the rest of my shots will be about 1 MOA out at 10:30)
If it shoots .5 inch groups with a lightly fouled barrel, it ain't broke.
I have a 8 twist 6BR with a great Shilen barrel on it. It WILL NOT shoot to POA with a clean barrel. It will shoot under 1/2 inch after three to five fouling shots and maintain that level of accuracy and impact at POA for over 100 shots from a cold or hot barrel.
ALL new barrels will have machining marks. Fire a few rounds through it and the machining marks will start to "settle in". Try a simple cleaning, bronze bore brush pushed through a few times, and finish with patches. The only time I would go "in depth" is if I bought a USED gun that was shooting erraticaly (sp?). Then I would do my best to get it down to bare metal and start fresh.
just my 2 cents.
For what it's worth.
W.D.
Think of your barrel like a highway. The first bullet that goes on it gets a little jacket peeled off to fill in the pot holes. Same with the next and the next. After the pot holes are filled in the bullets go down the barrel a lot smoother. Every barrel has a level where they shoot the best.
I like what Tailgunner said and that is to figure out how many shots your rifle start to, and continues to, shoot accurately. Also, instead of in-depth cleaning try just running a dry patch down the bore. Or a copper-solvent wetted patch immediately followed by dry patching (no soaking time) until just a little black smudge is present on the patches. What that does is smooth off the surface of the copper fouling but not dig it all the way out of the minute pits in the barrel.
-hope that helps some
'IN MY EXPERIENCE' CLEANING AND ACCURACY WHILE RELATED ARE NOT 'SO MUCH OF ONE=SO MUCH BETTER OF THE OTHER'. IT DEPENDS ON THE ACCURACY LEVEL YOU ARE TRYING TO GET. I HAD A REM. 788 IN .223 THAT WOULD SHOOT WELL WITHOUT CLEANING FOR OVER 500 RDS. (.75" GROUPS, PLENTY GOOD FOR PRAIRIE DOGS). MORE BORES ARE WORN OUT BY OVER CLEANING THAN ARE SHOT OUT. AS TO MATCH SHOOTING, NEVER GO TO A MATCH WITH A CLEAN BARREL (GROUP SHOOTING POSSIBLY EXCEPTED). MOST BARRELS REQUIRE SEVERAL SHOTS TO 'SETTLE IN'.
I am not aware of any matches that do not allow and give time for fouling shots. The Idea that you should go to a match with a fouled weapon is poor advice. Know how many rounds {if any} it takes to settle your barrel down, and go from there. It is also important to know how many rounds you can fire before your groups will start to open up. This is ammo specific, bullet type, load (powder and primer) along with oal can and does effect fouling {the speed there of}. As this question was originally regarding a 220 Swift, I believe you will be well served in keeping that little high pressure tube clean. For many years the cleaning of weapons chambered for a 220 Swift and like rounds{over bore}has been the topic of many, many expertly written articles. A 220 Swift, requires different care than a 308, or a 50BMG or a 155mm. May I suggest any one of a number of very good books dedicated to the varmint rifle. They all have a good amount of info regarding the care and cleaning of this type weapon.
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
'IN MY EXPERIENCE' CLEANING AND ACCURACY WHILE RELATED ARE NOT 'SO MUCH OF ONE=SO MUCH BETTER OF THE OTHER'. IT DEPENDS ON THE ACCURACY LEVEL YOU ARE TRYING TO GET. I HAD A REM. 788 IN .223 THAT WOULD SHOOT WELL WITHOUT CLEANING FOR OVER 500 RDS. (.75" GROUPS, PLENTY GOOD FOR PRAIRIE DOGS). MORE BORES ARE WORN OUT BY OVER CLEANING THAN ARE SHOT OUT. AS TO MATCH SHOOTING, NEVER GO TO A MATCH WITH A CLEAN BARREL (GROUP SHOOTING POSSIBLY EXCEPTED). MOST BARRELS REQUIRE SEVERAL SHOTS TO 'SETTLE IN'.
I am not aware of any matches that do not allow and give time for fouling shots. The Idea that you should go to a match with a fouled weapon is poor advice. Know how many rounds {if any} it takes to settle your barrel down, and go from there. It is also important to know how many rounds you can fire before your groups will start to open up. This is ammo specific, bullet type, load (powder and primer) along with oal can and does effect fouling {the speed there of}. As this question was originally regarding a 220 Swift, I believe you will be well served in keeping that little high pressure tube clean. For many years the cleaning of weapons chambered for a 220 Swift and like rounds{over bore}has been the topic of many, many expertly written articles. A 220 Swift, requires different care than a 308, or a 50BMG or a 155mm. May I suggest any one of a number of very good books dedicated to the varmint rifle. They all have a good amount of info regarding the care and cleaning of this type weapon.
I've never shot in a match that allowed FOULING shots per se. I have shot some that gave unlimited sighters. But I personally like to have my gun zeroed BEFORE I go to the match- and if it requires a few settling in shots, to have that done first. Especially since 90% of the matches I shoot only allow 5 sighters. But to each his own.
quote:Originally posted by MEMPHISJOE
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
'IN MY EXPERIENCE' CLEANING AND ACCURACY WHILE RELATED ARE NOT 'SO MUCH OF ONE=SO MUCH BETTER OF THE OTHER'. IT DEPENDS ON THE ACCURACY LEVEL YOU ARE TRYING TO GET. I HAD A REM. 788 IN .223 THAT WOULD SHOOT WELL WITHOUT CLEANING FOR OVER 500 RDS. (.75" GROUPS, PLENTY GOOD FOR PRAIRIE DOGS). MORE BORES ARE WORN OUT BY OVER CLEANING THAN ARE SHOT OUT. AS TO MATCH SHOOTING, NEVER GO TO A MATCH WITH A CLEAN BARREL (GROUP SHOOTING POSSIBLY EXCEPTED). MOST BARRELS REQUIRE SEVERAL SHOTS TO 'SETTLE IN'.
I am not aware of any matches that do not allow and give time for fouling shots. The Idea that you should go to a match with a fouled weapon is poor advice. Know how many rounds {if any} it takes to settle your barrel down, and go from there. It is also important to know how many rounds you can fire before your groups will start to open up. This is ammo specific, bullet type, load (powder and primer) along with oal can and does effect fouling {the speed there of}. As this question was originally regarding a 220 Swift, I believe you will be well served in keeping that little high pressure tube clean. For many years the cleaning of weapons chambered for a 220 Swift and like rounds{over bore}has been the topic of many, many expertly written articles. A 220 Swift, requires different care than a 308, or a 50BMG or a 155mm. May I suggest any one of a number of very good books dedicated to the varmint rifle. They all have a good amount of info regarding the care and cleaning of this type weapon.
I've never shot in a match that allowed FOULING shots per se. I have shot some that gave unlimited sighters. But I personally like to have my gun zeroed BEFORE I go to the match- and if it requires a few settling in shots, to have that done first. Especially since 90% of the matches I shoot only allow 5 sighters. But to each his own.
I agree you are correct! While they are sighters, not foulers, however; what ever the term, they foul the barrel! If your barrel is requiring more than 5 rounds to settle in, get a new rifle for match shooting. Most shooters have their weapons sighted in for the conditions they last fired. Sighters allow shooters to make fine adjustments for the match conditions they are about to fire for score. This is why at most matches, (all I've ever been to) had some kind of wind flag(s),most rifle matches I've ever fired-- most shooters made numerous corrections to their sights during the match, in fact, many had spotters that suggested sight corrections after almost every shot! God Bless the shooter that can zero his weapon days before a match, leave the bore dirty, make no corrections prior to or during the match and fire a score that wins! (real NRA matches-not a couple of beer drinkers having a can shoot)
I do think, though, that the rigorous cleaning routine is a holdover from corrosive primer days or even blackpowder days. For bench rest shooting, absolutely, squeaky clean. For a gun like a non NM Garand though, that maybe is capable of 2.5-3 MOA, I really don't see much difference in accuracy whether dirty or clean- until it gets 5-600 rounds through it anyhow.
Then again I've been doing a test with my AK to see if it EVER needs cleaning. I've got about 3k rounds through it and it doesn't shoot any worse- or better- than when clean, so it really just depends on your need. [:)]
MENPHISJOE, I would be appreciative for any suggested books on the subject of varment rifle and care of these little speedsters. Wanting all the knowledge I can obtain! Thanks in advance, Robert Many THANKS to all on these subjects!
The varmint hunter's odessey is THE book for you.