In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options

Muzzle flash (fireball!) with different powders?

jsurvantjsurvant Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
edited July 2008 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
I am reloading .40s using two powders: HS-6 and PowerPistol. I am loading both on the starting end of load data. However, PowerPistol powder has a significant fireball muzzle flash unlike the HS-6. Is this something to be concerned about? Will reducing the load help or is it simply a slower burn rate and some powder is burning outside of the barrel? Have others experienced this with this powder and is it a concern? Thoughts?

Thank you!
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • Options
    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390 ✭
    edited November -1
    Slower burn powder burn out of the end of barrel . Short barrels need fast burn rate.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jsurvant,

    Powder does not burn outside the barrel.

    Muzzle flash is the superheated gases that are created by the ignition and burning of the powder charge. The expanding of these gases is what pushes the bullet through the barrel. A shorter barrel does not allow the gases to cool sufficiently to be less bright. This is especially true of most short barreled firearms such as pistols or revolvers. Most but not all modern powder formulas include a coating referred to as a deterrent or an element of the formula that controls or reduces the muzzle flash. This is most prominent with Ball powders but is used in many current formulas.

    Reducing the load may work just the opposite since a reduced load is usually lower pressure and not conducive to the efficient burning of the powder charge. Sometimes a safe higher pressure load is the better alternative. Note that I stress the term SAFE. Consult your reloading manual. A powder with a faster burn rate is also an alternative so long as it's confirmed in a manual.

    Best.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    jsurvantjsurvant Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great info. Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    MEMPHISJOEMEMPHISJOE Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Many different flame reducing agents are used through out the smokeless powder industry. Vihtavuori uses at least seven different additives for the purpose of, "Flame reducing agents are used to decrease the muzzle flame when a fire is shot". Remember this is translated from Finnish. They list additives such as potassium bitartrate etc. Several years ago SOCOM, had a requirement for 9mm NATO, rounds 147gr-with very low flash-for use with the newest gen of NVGs. I do not know what powder they finally settled on, or if it was an generally available powder with a special additive, or a special run powder. But depending on the additives, some powders will deliver a much lower flash than other. If you have ever seen a 30 cal Carbine revolver (Ruger) fire near dark, not only is it very, very loud, but it has an impressive fire ball! Rifle powder in a handgun. I would try some of the V powders, they are very clean, with almost no variation, if any, from lot to lot.
    Flame(flash) reducing agents have been part of military powders (cannon powders) for many years, along with anti coppering agents, and wear reducing agents, along with many others. It appears you have run into an age old problem. If you try V-powders and they work, give a post!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    jsurvantjsurvant Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Memphisjoe. Great info. I have discovered that the Alliant PowerPistol powder has a middle of the road burn rate, thus part of my problem. I am shooting a .40 with a 4.5" barrel and another with a 3" barrel - both have extra large flashes. The shorter barrels apparently contribute as well from the feedback I am receiving.

    However, my other loads that I am utilizing Hogdgon HS-6 powder have zero noticable flash (in lighted areas). I guess I will stick with HS-6 and have to try out Vihavuori in my next batch. Thanks.

    Jay
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    jsurvantjsurvant Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    jsurvant,

    Powder does not burn outside the barrel.

    Muzzle flash is the superheated gases that are created by the ignition and burning of the powder charge. The expanding of these gases is what pushes the bullet through the barrel. A shorter barrel does not allow the gases to cool sufficiently to be less bright. This is especially true of most short barreled firearms such as pistols or revolvers. Most but not all modern powder formulas include a coating referred to as a deterrent or an element of the formula that controls or reduces the muzzle flash. This is most prominent with Ball powders but is used in many current formulas.

    Reducing the load may work just the opposite since a reduced load is usually lower pressure and not conducive to the efficient burning of the powder charge. Sometimes a safe higher pressure load is the better alternative. Note that I stress the term SAFE. Consult your reloading manual. A powder with a faster burn rate is also an alternative so long as it's confirmed in a manual.

    Best.




    What are your thoughts on slightly compressing the load to increase pressure to improve burn of powder?

    And with such large fireball, does it concern you at all to increase powder charge to increase pressure?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Power Pistol is widely known for bright muzzle flash and loud muzzle blast. I had a can of it and EVERYBODY knew when I was shooting it. Fiddling with the load in the normal range from maximum to a -10% starting load will not change that.

    I would stick with HS6. Vihtavuori powders are fine quality but you will pay extra for it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    Alot of muzzle flash depends on the coating the companies put on each grain of powder.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Options
    jsurvantjsurvant Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does its extra muzzle flash and blast create any "unhealthy" wear and tear on a gun? I guess I mean, does this necessarily mean that there is or could be extra or unhealthy pressure on the handgun using this powder. I am staying with the lower ranges of the starting load and may go lower. I bought a bunch of this stuff and need to try to make some "acceptable" loads.

    Jay
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.