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Collet dies needed or not?
torquimata
Member Posts: 200 ✭✭✭
Hi Experts,
I'm a beginning reloader and just picked up my first press, a Lee single stage. I will be loading for my daughter's 7mm08 to start and then my son's 243. I read alot on this forum and other places and purchased Lee collet dies as they neck size only and we'll be using shells only from each kid's particular rifle.
My question is- Should I also purchase the Lee factory crimp or is it just hype and not necessary? The kids will be shooting deer and woodchucks at ranges up to 200 yds. in Pa. Both have Savage rifles which shoot pretty nicely with the Accutrigger and I'd like to make up some pretty good rounds, will purchase the crimping die if you all think it's worth it.
By the way I'm starting with 50 Winchester 7mm08 shells, 140 gr. Combined Technology boattails, Federal Match primers, and H380 powder for the 7mm08. The 243 gets the same primer and powder but with 100 gr. Sierra flat base spitzers. Any thoughts on these combos would also be appreciated.
Thank you and, as always, I look forward to your advice!
I'm a beginning reloader and just picked up my first press, a Lee single stage. I will be loading for my daughter's 7mm08 to start and then my son's 243. I read alot on this forum and other places and purchased Lee collet dies as they neck size only and we'll be using shells only from each kid's particular rifle.
My question is- Should I also purchase the Lee factory crimp or is it just hype and not necessary? The kids will be shooting deer and woodchucks at ranges up to 200 yds. in Pa. Both have Savage rifles which shoot pretty nicely with the Accutrigger and I'd like to make up some pretty good rounds, will purchase the crimping die if you all think it's worth it.
By the way I'm starting with 50 Winchester 7mm08 shells, 140 gr. Combined Technology boattails, Federal Match primers, and H380 powder for the 7mm08. The 243 gets the same primer and powder but with 100 gr. Sierra flat base spitzers. Any thoughts on these combos would also be appreciated.
Thank you and, as always, I look forward to your advice!
Comments
I would suggest going with the Lee Factory crimp die for the purpose you state. I have collet dies and they are great for the target range but my cases are right at limits for loading into the chamber. Meaning I have to apply a little force to get them to close. What enhances accuracy is a drawback in the field. You need a case that will easily chamber. The factory crimp can do that for you. What the collet dies don't do for me is set the neck back just a smidge, so that I'm on the maximum side of headspace room. Or, set the shoulders in just a smidge so the round chambers easily.
You can adjust the factory crimp to come down so that it doesn't crimp but does align and size the shoulder a little better. It also aligns the case and bullet. I don't usually use them with rifle cartridges but I consider it a must when I load for pistol. If you want to take your daughters rifle and load it for accuracy then get the collet dies. If you are just going to reload to have the loads and bullets you want then I would suggest a standard FL resizing die set.
Edit:
As far as the loads for deer those are excellent. I would suggest H4350X, but if you already have the H380 it will work just fine. Remember that if your daughter prefers a lighter load you can go all the way down to 100 gr. or even 90 gr. in 7mm for a lighter kick with faster bullets. Contrary to what you might hear a 100 gr. bullet in 7mm does a number on deer that most people don't believe. The .243 speaks for itself. 100 gr. @ or near 3k is quite the ticket on deer. I know a number of people disagree with how I hunted in my younger years but I killed all my deer with either a 85 gr. bullet in .243 or an 87/100 gr. bullet in .257. The magic is where you place the bullet not how much the rifle knocks you around.
If there so "needed", how did we do our reloading for the last 100 years without them? And why is the only company that pushes them noted for there low price/low quality products?
Lee products are low end at best with the exception of their Classic Cast press and their dies
I use their dies for my .223 Rem and my 22-250 and both shoot sub .250 groups I doubt that I could use Redding,RCBS or any other dies sets and get any better results out of Factory guns.
I will not uses their presses but there is not a thing wrong with their dies at all
I have used Lee stuff for 25 years with no problems.I tried the crimp die on favorite 243 load and it went from a MOA load to a 6 inch group.No more crimp dies for me.
[?] my best patterning 243,22-250, & 300win mag all have a lee factory crimp applied to them
when used in conjunction with the collet dies I think the factory crimp is redundant but when using regular size dies and when seating bullets out of the case closer to the lands the factory crimp serves a purpose I think
On one hand, the idea of a firm crimp to help neck tension and better powder ignition is tempting- however a uniform crimp is dependent on how much pressure you put on the press handle. Hardly scientific and hardly repeatable.
It does claim to true the bullet to the case and decrease runout. In that sense I see a benefit.
It also is probably a good idea for a lever gun or semi auto.
For bolt actions I don't think it is needed. I rarely use mine and have never seen a demonstratable accuracy increase.
I do however use the Factory crimp dies when I load for my 30-30 and 223 and 308 ammo to be used in my AR-15 and 10 and my M1A. I really like it when I load 223 for my AR because mostly I just load "Blasting" ammo and don't trim the cases unless they are way over spec. The LEE Factory Crimp die, because it is a collet die, will crimp the round regardless of trim length. As mentioned before, the die works with how much pressure is applied and sometimes repeatability is an issue, but I have not had this problem because I use a RockChuckerII which cams over at the end of the stroke giving me repeatable pressure everytime.
As far as needing them or not, it is more a personal choice. I use both Lee Collet neck sizers and RCBS Neck sizers and am pleasesd with both of them. However most people don't recommend using neck-sized ammo to hunt with because of the fire-formed brass usually being tighter in the chamber, the smallest bit of dirt or debris can cause problems chambering a round.
Just my 2cents, but hope I could help!
Jeremy
I would suggest skipping the crimp. I have never found it to actually improve accuracy and it just adds wear and tear to your cases. Crimping is primarily for waterproofing purposes and I have never had any problems with collet dies not being watertight...although i try to avoid swimming with my rife...tends to cause rust. I shoot mainly .308 win and never have had any problems.
Actually in my 30-30 I noticed an increase in accuracy when I started crimping my handloads, most likely to the more uniform start pressures. Most generally it doesn't improve accuracy, but it has many more benefits than just helping to waterproof.
1- prevents bullet from becoming dislodged during recoil, usually being set deeper in case, also plays true in O.A.L increasing when a round is chambered in an auto-loader
2- Crimp helps with uniform start pressure, a must for pistol cartridges, and a uniform start pressure is a key in consistency.
3- A must for ammo to be fired in a tubular magazine, see #1
and the list goes on.
I have crimped all my handloads for my 223 and 308 in my auto-loaders and all my 30-30 loads and have never damaged a case, ofcourse I do use collet crimp dies. With collet crimp dies you can hardly see and marks on the case after you crimp and it is usually so cloase to the end that any damage is most likely in the area that will disappear with the next trimming anyway.