500 Magnum reloads w/Rainier Bullets

jcook01

Gents

I finally picked up the last couple of remaining reloading tools and am now in the process of putting lead back into my spent cases.

Which brings me to my next set of questions. I'm using the Rainier 335 grain 50 cal reloading bullets shown below.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=726343

How does one go about finding/calculating the correct overall cartridge length for this particular bullet? Hodgdon's website lists various COLs based upon reloading bullet used. There must be some method to this madness, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Also, how much crimp is requred, is this a trial and error thing? Place two rounds in the gun and monitor slippage on the unfired round? Or some other criteria I've yet to stumble upon?

Regards, John

jcook01

Rainier doesn't list seating depths for their reloading bullets on their website, what a pain in the you know what. I sent them an email, I'll post what I find out.

From the Reinier website:

"We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp."

Thats all fine and dandy, I've a handle on how to get started with the crimps but still leaves me looking for insertion depth criteria. Any suggestions? Please help!!

Current load I'm working up is comprised of:
Starline Brass (R)
Remington Large Rifle primers 9.5
Hodgdon Tight Group 13 Grains (~starting point)
Rainier 335 grain jacketed flat point

Definately not doing anything until I hear back from someone or stumble across some good reference material.

Regards, John

RustyNail

Hi John;
I have done a lot of experimenting with these and I've found that seating depth isn't critical for accuracy but definitely affects velocity. Remember, when you change the seating depth, you change the volume of the "combustion chamber" in the cartridge and this affects the initital pressure produced for a given charge.

Do make a note of the seating depth (or overall length) when seating non-canulured bullets so your rounds will produce similar velocities from batch from one batch to the next.

I like a roll crimp with these bullets--but don't crimp too tightly since compressing a bullet in one place may cause bulging in another place resulting in bullet "wabble."


Regards,
Rob.

jcook01

Rob

Thanks for the info. Reinier returned my email with a suggested COL of 2.10, further they said they had experimented with the COL range of 2.090-2.15 and found 2.10 to provide their best results. I'm not sure what they used as a criteria to gauge that 2.10 was the sweet spot but I worked up 20 rounds last night and will go to the range this weekend and turn them loose down range.

I dumped a full charge of 20 grains Titegroup into a case last night (just to check volume, didn't make a round) and was some what surprised to see this charge displaced barely over half the total cartidge volume. My initial 13 grain 20 round starting loads were well short of half full.

I'm still trying to get an eye/feel for the crimps. The crimp really doesn't appear to roll the case edge very much at all. I found that after that top edge of the cartridge is noticeably starting to bend ( you really have to look hard to see it) that any further crimp depth just flattens the outside of the rim and continuing to crimp further shaves just a hair more metal off the cartridge outside edge leaving a bevell on the case edge. I am using separate Hornady insertion and crimp dies. I crimped last night until I noticed metal bevelling on the outer lip and that the case was no longer belled outwards and called it quits. I'll load one round to fire and seat a second round for measurement and watch/measure the second round for chambered bullet creep this weekend after each of the other rounds are fired.

Thanks, John

RustyNail

I ruined a Hornady crimp die by scratching the inside with those case mouth rim shavings you are referring to. After I scratched the inside of the die, my rounds were then scratched by the die. Hornady replaced it for me for free. I have been trying to find a carbide crimp but nobody seems to be able to spin a carbide die blank that size.

Good point about the charge barely filling half the possible volume. I had initially written my response thinking you said Titewad rather than Titegroup--that would have allowed for the possibility of several times the desired charge. Double charging would probably not cause any problems--I have completely filled the cases for "worst-case-scenario" on all SW500 ammo I have developed for resale. The SW500s were tested to 100,000 psi without producing any failures. I would definitely not try any denser powders.

I'll make a note of the 2.1 COL. I'm doing all my SW 500s with IMR4227 because I like the performance, get very tight chrono spreads, and the density results in about two-thirds case-fill at the desired charge. Do let me know what kind of velocities you get if you chrono.

Also, the best price I've gotten for Hornady 500grain XTPs is about 60 cents apiece. Let me know if you find any cheaper.

1911a1-fan

from their web site

quote:Q3. Do your bullets have ANY velocity restrictions?
A. In general, our bullets typically perform their best when shot at velocities no greater than 1,200 to 1,250 Feet per second (FPS).

i have found in other calibers it to be very true, but at 1,100 fps, so if you don't find good results this may be the answer

jcook01

Thanks for the info.

Anyone know of any other inexpensive 50 caliber reload bullet?

1911a1-fan

quote:Originally posted by jcook01
Thanks for the info.

Anyone know of any other inexpensive 50 caliber reload bullet?


50 cal, and inexpensive technically can not be used in the same sentence[:)]

jcook01

Range report

Well I thoroughly enjoyed the loads I worked up using 13 grains of Titegroup with the 335 grain bullet. It appears that this round will groups at 25 yards were tighter than I could shoot. During one session I put three rounds inside a fifty-cent piece.

I fired single rounds with a second round in the cylinder monitoring for bullet/crimp slip. Every round that I monitored slipped an initial micro-amount, forgot the calipers at home, but I'd guess no more than .oo5" no matter how many rounds were fired before it. Just enough to see that the copper score line in the bullet had moved.

I also had worked up a couple of heavier shooting loads using 16 grains and 19 grains. Again the bullet/crimp slip distance when monitoring these rounds was the same as above.

So I'm guessing without the manufactured cennelure there will be a minimal amount of slippage but nothing signifcant.

Comments, questions, concerns are welcome.

Regards, John

jcook01

quote:Originally posted by jcook01
Range report

Well I thoroughly enjoyed the loads I worked up using 13 grains of Titegroup with the 335 grain bullet. It appears that this round will group at 25 yards tighter than I can shoot. During one session I put three rounds inside a fifty-cent piece. I can't say the same for some manufactured rounds I've tried in the past, so I'm very happy with the consistency.

I fired single rounds with a second round in the cylinder monitoring for bullet/crimp slip. Every round that I monitored slipped an initial micro-amount, forgot the calipers at home, but I'd guess no more than .oo5", it didn't matter how many rounds were fired while it was in the cylinder. Just enough to see that the copper score line in the bullet had moved.

I also had worked up a couple of heavier shooting loads using 16 grains and 19 grains. Again the bullet/crimp slip distance when monitoring these rounds was the same as the lighter load above.

So I'm guessing without the manufactured cennelure there will be a minimal amount of slippage but nothing signifcant.

Comments, questions, concerns are welcome.

Regards, John

jcook01

Most recently I tried 41 grains of H110 and Horndy's 350-XTP bullet.

At 1800fps all I can say is ouch! [B)] Needless to say I won't be shooting a lot of these.

Tite Group is a puddy cat in the 500 compared to H110.