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help on long range shooting

looking for some insite on the art of long range shooting.I know that going out an doing it is probly the best way but is there any good reading out there so i can get prepared an learn how to read the wind an things like that better. Right now i can shoot under a MOA at 500yrds start getting 700 an more i lose it. Ishoot with one guy that is a great shooter but a lowsy teacher he dont realy like to explain much so its making not all that much fun to go out an shoot. So any help that you al have would be great. Thanks

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    JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    as well as the books nononsense has suggested, there are articles in the forums at www.longrangehunting.com which are written by real shooters. And YES, you are correct, range time is the best teacher.
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    BigKev72BigKev72 Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What sort of long range shooting are you doing? UIT match, practical sniper style?
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    mudd_boggermudd_bogger Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    practical sniper style.
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    dardascastbulletsdardascastbullets Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mudd_bogger
    looking for some insite on the art of long range shooting.I know that going out an doing it is probly the best way but is there any good reading out there so i can get prepared an learn how to read the wind an things like that better. Right now i can shoot under a MOA at 500yrds start getting 700 an more i lose it. Ishoot with one guy that is a great shooter but a lowsy teacher he dont realy like to explain much so its making not all that much fun to go out an shoot. So any help that you al have would be great. Thanks


    I used to shoot highpower and longrange before my knees went to pot. I can remember back about 35 years ago when I attended my first longrange match at Camp Grayling and was in awe of Larry Rackel (Wimbledon Cup Winner and Palma Team Member). Remembrances of Larry hammering out those tens (well back in those days it was 5V's) and I couldn't hardly keep them in the black.

    Anyway, what I am driving to here is that it takes 'on the job experience' if you want to learn how to get good at longrange shooting. Your gun, ammo, your knowledge of how to shoot in the wind, your position, and your tenacity to win will make you a great longrange shooter. There is only so much that can be 'had' from reading. To learn from someone who has 'been there before' is really the only way. It only took me about ten years to get everything figured out to the point where I was winning (and actually shooting great scores too).

    If there is another 1000 yard range that you can travel to then I would highly recommend that and stay away from the person that doesn't want to be bothered. You will learn so much from the 'right' person. And it will be so beneficial too if he or she is of the 'coach' variety.

    Good Luck!

    Matt Dardas
    Dardas Cast Bullets
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    BigKev72BigKev72 Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have to agree with Matt, there is nothing like actually laying on the mound and putting in some trigger time. Sadly in the US there are not very many good 1000 yard ranges and even fewer full bore rifle clubs. I grew up in Australia and back when I was coming up (sadly no more) most small country towns had 600 yard or longer ranges, with very active rifle clubs. I managed at the tender age of 13 to find the best group of old grouchy men the world has ever known and they brought me along, taught me the tricks of wind, light, position, breathing and mirage. They helped me get my first target rifle and even helped me with the cost of ammo when my hard earned chore money would not cut the mustard. Unless you can find something like that I would just suggest reading everything you can, see if you can find an old military sniper and get chummy. From years as a military sniper I can tell you the best approach is be friendly, civil, listen hard, speak little. As to where to find this guy...go to the range and start working on things yourself, you will sooner or later find someone else who will be happy to help you out, I have never been in a shooting situation where someone didnt pop up and start chatting about something....you could even post a cardboard sign behind you while you are shooting saying "constructive criticism accepted here" it might get a few laughs but sooner or later someone will help you out.
    I have shot at most ranges in Australia, The Queens cup in Australia several times, Bisley a couple of times and the commonwealth games once and the crowd you find at the range are usually some amazingly good people so you should find a mentor, if there was a decent range here and you lived close I would be happy to help you out, but I don't consider 200 yards worth getting excited about.

    Quick edit on something already too wordy...but you can also look into attending some law-enforcement sniper schools, I can't recommend any but I know some places (gunsite etc) are open to the public and do have LE sniper training schools. I would suggest putting in some serious range time though before going, you don't want to retard the training for the entire group by showing up with a mediocre skill set. Law enforcement snipers do not generally train at 700 yards, but the basic's are the same ultimately, and if you train right you can apply them to any range you want to shoot at.

    Surprisingly little things can make a difference too...when I was shooting competition I used to shoot a Sportco M44 Omark (Australian produced fullbore match rifle)[url][/url]http://cas.awm.gov.au/technology/REL/20344[url][/url] out to 600 yards. But when I got to 700 yards on the advise of my cranky old friends I switched out to a re-barreled Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1, I had been told by the old timers that the M44's action was too rigid and that the enfield was better at long range....true? who knows, but it seemed to work just fine...this is all with 7.62 NATO (.308 win) by the way, no wildcats for us.
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    glabrayglabray Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Reminds me of an article I read about the military testing the Trapdoor Springfield .45-70 at ranges up to 2500 yards. As I reacall, the target at that distance was 40 by 40 feet.
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    mudd_boggermudd_bogger Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks to everyone for the advice. the only problem here is that this is the only place that i have that is half way close to me to shoot at without having to travel for 350 miles to the next range that is capable of 1000 yrd shooting.
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    sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mudd_bogger,

    I'll say that range time is a great teacher but you have to go about it in an organized way. This is one of the greatest reasons for (and assets of) the range log. In it you will write down all the conditions as you called them and where your bullet ended up. You will see how close a manufacturer claims their bullet to be for BC. Which affects wind drift(most importantly), as well as drops. You can always figure out how much to adjust upwards to hit the target but the wind changes. My suggestion is to spend a fair amount of time shooting at distances you know will hit the target when you have wind. Call the wind as best you can. Also, get an anemometer to help verify your calls. You may, or probably will, use this in competition or on the range. Use the information you learn at shorter ranges to build to longer and longer ranges. When you completely miss paper/target go back and find out why. Look back in the log and find out what you called the conditions to be. Also, if you can't find your mentor, just ask if someone one the range can spot your rounds. It really helps when you miss paper/target. Then you have an idea of how to adjust. Instead of just guessing. Don't forget also that as much time on the range you need to do some homework and find out what you did right and what you did wrong and think of a way to employ that on your next trip to the range. That information will go in your logbook. You will see a pattern sometime down the road of how you may have missed to the left for some reason with no explanation. The pattern will show that you may be missing some wind call when you don't see it. You will look harder for it next time. I found an odd one at our range. When the wind comes from the south a draw picks it up and gives a hard 90 degree push to the left. But then the wind shifts 45 deg. to the left and the draw doesn't funnel the wind. For a 5 mph south wind, The actual shift is: 0 wind 0-200 yds., 10mph left 200-300yds. When it changes to 45 deg rear quarter it's 2.5 mph to the right all the way out! It's made more than a few people say WTH/H!!?? But seeing it time and again on one range allows you to be aware of things you might not suspect of causing you wind problems.

    Anyhow, enough of a ramble, -good luck
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    RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "The Accurate Rifle" byWarren Page is another good book that does a good job with bench technique and equipment.
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    CryptoChiefCryptoChief Member Posts: 100 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mud Bogger,

    Might try www.bestofthewest.com and check out the "Shooting beyond Belief" offer they have. It's a ten set DVD that goes start to finish on accurizing your equipment, optics and all the practical, and specific, shooting info. You might want to check out Superior Shooting Systems on their web site.

    CC
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    lfi guylfi guy Member Posts: 68 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Camp Perry has a long range school that's for civilians. I took it and recommend it. I'd do it next summer, before oBOMBa shuts it down for civilians.

    I found that for myself, you have to get comfortable- can't focus on the target when you're cramped. Also, get 'Modern High Power Competition' by Constantine- an excellent reference.

    One mistake I made for some time- had my trigger finger putting force on/touching the stock
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