lubing cases

GTRiem

Bought a dillon 550 a few months ago to start loading rifle,also picked up rcbs (steel)dies for .444marlin,45-70,.223,22-250 at the shops,I would have prefered carbide...but the price was more doable[:)].
So for lubing the cases ive read that the lee lube diluted in alcohol or the one shot spray is the simplest methed for lubing
when using a progressive.
I don't want to cut corners I just want to know what order I will need to do the ops. and make use of "progressive" ,Lube-size-clean-skip size-prime-etc.
or Clean-lube-wait to dry-size-prime-etc...
If I like loading these round and shoot 'em more I will probably up-grade to carbide , unless the lubing issue isnt as big a deal as it seems.My dillon Square Deal uses carbide so i never used steel dies before.
Any thoughts on this? Especially to these specific calibers.
Thanks, GTR

mrbruce

You can buy Imperial sizing die wax from a few places and it's the best case lube ever made...
Sinclair & Redding has it for sure..

GTRiem

With the Imperial wax will i need to lube-size-and then thoroughly clean the cases inside and outside(tumble,wipe clean,or wash)?
I realize it does not take much to lube but doesnt this lube foul
the powder if left behind?
Also is this lube better for cases or for life of the dies
GTR

mrbruce

A little goes a long way just a hint on your fingers to wipe on the case is plenty, I wipe them off later with a paper towel...
You don't need any on the neck or shoulder area, so it's not apt to get into a case if your careful....

GTRiem

Ok thank you.
Now for some really dumb questions,but i'm not trying to reinvent the wheel either...
Why doesn't the inside need lube? On the necked cases
doesnt the inside and outside make contact w/ the die?
Has anyone tried a dry lube, like graphite?
Does this type of lube not work with the drawing and
reforming process of the die.
The reason i ask is in my muzzleloader i use cartidge powder
this is graphite coated blackpowder making second shot reloading
eaiser[:)] its seems to be a compatible lubricant w/ powder.
GTR

Rocky Raab

Proper lubing and cleaning of cases has always seemed to me to be the biggest drawback to progressive presses. That's partly why I don't own such a press. Not needing one is a bigger reason for me, but lubing was the clincher that changed not needing to not wanting.

I use Imperial (as described, just the merest rumor of an echo of a shadow of a trace of it on my left-hand fingers) and I plunge case necks into a film can containing #9 lead shot and a 50/50 mix of mica and graphite. The imperial lubes the body just by handling the cases, and the dry powders lube the neck inside and out. (The shot helps apply the powder and makes sure none cakes in the neck.)

I clean the cases after sizing by "towel tumbling" them in a rolled up tube of towel sprinkled with rubbing alcohol. If I have hundreds of cases, I dump them into plain corncob in my regular tumbler.

How you are supposed to clean lube from cases when using a progressive press is beyond me.

HandLoad

I use a tub of Unique - about five or six ounces, has lasted me over five years, and still plenty. It is Lanolin, not a petro-based lube, and will be much less likely to cause troubles. Just touch the lube with your index finger, then rub between thumb and forefinger as you go to get the case. Hardly slows you down.

I used to have problems with too much lube. Not with the Unique.

zimmden

Yes, inside of neck makes a lot of contact with sizing button on deprime rod especially if die oversizes neck on downstroke. I use graphite powder on proper size cotton bore mop that is stood vertical. Dip case neck 1/4 " into graphite and then over bore mop. This also eliminates almost all case stretching (lengthening). Bob

Rocky Raab

Just to clarify HandLoad's post -- What he is using is a tub of Hornady Unique case lube. It is NOT, repeat NOT, Alliant Unique gunpowder.

(An ill-advised bit of naming on Hornady's part if you ask me.)

That Unique case lube is exactly the same stuff as Mink Oil shoe dressing (The Unique tub even says "Good on leather"), and is a lanolin-based concoction. It is very good, almost as good as Imperial Sizing Die Wax. I have used both and could live happily with either.

GTRiem

Thanks all for your input,HaHa the Unique term did throw me.[:I]
But it was while i was searching old posts on case lubing and ran across it.
I will give these tips a try.The calibers that i don't shoot often,
because i don't load them yet,still may not warrent carbide and i will just lube 'em[:)].But i might go ahead and see about trading off the .223 seel dies for carbide w/ full length sizing.
GTR

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by GTRiem
Thanks all for your input,HaHa the Unique term did throw me.[:I]
But it was while i was searching old posts on case lubing and ran across it.
I will give these tips a try.The calibers that i don't shoot often,
because i don't load them yet,still may not warrent carbide and i will just lube 'em[:)].But i might go ahead and see about trading off the .223 seel dies for carbide w/ full length sizing.
GTR



Bottleneck FL dies ALL require lube, even the carbide ones.
BTW, having a touch of lube on straight wall cases makes them run smoother through carbide dies too.

brier-49

You might want to try Dillon case lube,works great and doesn't build up in the dies like wax based lubes.

e8gm

I have used the Dillon to load thousands of rifle rounds. I find it much easier to do all my brass prep on a single stage then throw powder and seat the bullet on the Dillon. After tumbling, I size on an RCBS Rock Chucker, then measure case length, trim as necessary, deburr case mouth and flash hole, and clean the primer pocket. If I want, I can clean the lube off by hand or throw them back in the tumbler to remove the lube. Then load normally on the Dillon except I don't use a sizing die in station one.

sarcrew00

I too use the Dillon 550 press for all my reloading. Being that I shoot a lot of pistol ammo the progressive is great in this respects. As long as the press is set up for the caliber I am loading I can load 100 pistol rounds in about 15 minutes. As for the rifle ammo, I use the first stage of the progressive press to size and deprime the brass case. I usually lube the cases with one of the spray type lubes and then tumble the cases to remove the lube. After case cleaning I use the remaining positions on the press to charge with powder, seat bullet, and crimp case if required. If you are only loading a few rifle rounds at a time no need for a progressive I guess. Most of the rifle ammo I load is 223 for an AR15 and go through a lot of ammo.

Rocky Raab

GT, save your money. Handgun dies can be made with a narrow ring of carbide because the cases are nearly parallel-sided. Rifle cartridges would require a full-length carbide surface because they are tapered cases. That is not only extremely expensive to machine, but is fragile. And, you still have to lube cases due to the full-length surface contact.

GTRiem

Great info ! thanks.
Its good to know that a purchasing carbide,would not be a true upgrade and i can go ahead and get the lube and see how it goes.
With the cost of components today I hate to start scrapin out stuff,
or ruining the dies.
On my dillonSD i've used the slightest mist of spray lube or sometimes none...is the narrow band of carbide not contacting the entire length of the case why i never have had a problem? or was i just was lucky i didnt score or damage them
GTR

Rocky Raab

If you look inside the die, you'll likely see what looks like a man's wedding band right at the bottom. You might even be able to feel that the area higher up inside the die is recessed a bit. The "wedding band" is the carbide ring, and the die walls above it are recessed so that the case never touches anything but the carbide ring. It will always be right at the bottom so that as much of the brass is resized as possible.

It definitely helps to add just the merest trace of lube to the first case you size in a carbide die, and then perhaps another trace every 15 or 20 cases as you go. That prevents even the chance of galling, which IS possible, most especially with nickel cases.

And that also explains why you don't usually see carbide dies for tapered or bottleneck cases: the carbide ring wouldn't touch anything until the very last bit of case insertion.

Pinhead

I use mostly Imperial wax to lube but I do use a pad and Redding lube occassionally. I keep an old bath towel in my lap and give each case a couple of spins with the towel held fairly tight around the case with my fingers and I easily remove nearly all the was from the case. As far as Carbide dies, I don't use any lubricant on them at all and have never damaged a Carbide die in my 40 years of using them. I did shatter the Carbide ring in a .41 magnum Lyman die back in the 70's by accidently dropping it onto a concrete floor--that did the trick. Shattered the Carbide ring like it was glass. I bought a new one and its still in use thousands of reloads later. My experience anyway.

Rocky Raab

Next time you load, try a teensy wisp of lube on the first case. I think you'll be happily surprised at how much better even a carbide die works!

jonk

Never much liked Imperial. Oh it works great, but considering it is just lanolin, which I can buy a 1 pound tub for on ebay for half the price of the Imperial, why buy it?

Now as for progressive loading. Lee case lube. Enough said. It truly dries, is water based, and can be diluted up to 15:1 with water or alcohol. So what you do is:

Empty a tube of Lee sizing lube into a spray bottle. Add about 10 times that amount of rubbing alcohol. Shake. Now you have a nice case lube spray that you can angle down into the case necks too. Or use a Q tip to apply after spraying the sides, as you prefer. Let dry 30 min or so.

Now run through your progressive press. The Lee lube truly dries, unlike sticky lanolin based mixes like Dillon, Hornady, etc. offer. So it doesn't contaminate powder. It just leaves a white dusty residue inside the case. Harmless.

Take your loaded rounds and remove the lube as you choose. I personally tumble them; never had an issue with powder breakdown but if it concerns you, you can wipe it off with a cloth. Dump the cases on a lightly damp cloth, then roll another cloth back and forth over them. Voila. Done.

Yep, Lee lube is good stuff.

Now for a single stage press use whatever. I still use Lee as I have it on hand but if you wash or tumble after sizing Dillon, Hornady, RCBS, etc are all fine.

Rocky Raab

You are wrong about Imperial. It isn't lanolin (or JUST lanolin) like Hornady Unique. Imperial is a mix of two waxes and two oils, made just for case sizing.

If you prefer diluted Lee, that's great. If you like lanolin and can get it cheap, that's great as well. I've used both straight Lee and lanolin and like them. There are probably others that work, more or less. But I like Imperial a lot more. No muss, no fuss, no overspray on everything else in the room, no drying time and above all, no case sticking ever.

jonk

Hmm learn something new all the time. I felt it and looked at it and it looked quite similar to the lanolin I have so I figured, yep, they're just selling lanolin.

I do use it (I mean I did buy a tub before I decided it wasn't worth it to me) for case reforming.