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What do you consider long range?
one2hutn
Member Posts: 261 ✭✭✭
Since this is a competitive shooting and reloading section I figure there are some serious shooters on here. What do you consider is good accuracy with a factory firearm(not custom)and what do you think are the first things to do to make a factory gun more accurate. I think trigger and bedding improve accuracy but I am new and looking for more. Also, can I get accuracy past 200yds with factory ammo. And how many different brands should I try in a gun?Different each time at the range through a clean gun or a side by side comparison.Thanks for any support. I shot my first decent group at 200yds and I am hooked.
Comments
W.D.
Good accuracy is when your average group is half the size of your target. Long range is the farthest distance where that happens.
Think about it. Those two definitions cover everything.
Now with a scoped rifle, and premium components, I'd consider that 'starting' ground. I've seen guys shoot 1.5" at 300 just at my local club- and far better in real matches.
FWIW, to ME 300 yards or more is 'long range'.
I have rifles that will run the factory ammo they prefer, into 1.5" at 300yds with no problem. Now, with handloads and a properly built rifle, I have gone under 1" at 400-500yds. The shooter makes the difference, with components coming in a close second.
Truing the action and lapping the lugs as well as bedding and a trigger job will help a factory rifle. Other than that, you have to start upgrading components.
Thanks>Chris
quote:Originally posted by JustC
long range for a moderatly experienced shooter would be IMHO 400yds+. For a very experienced shooter, then I would say 600+ yds.
I have rifles that will run the factory ammo they prefer, into 1.5" at 300yds with no problem. Now, with handloads and a properly built rifle, I have gone under 1" at 400-500yds. The shooter makes the difference, with components coming in a close second.
Truing the action and lapping the lugs as well as bedding and a trigger job will help a factory rifle. Other than that, you have to start upgrading components.
Combat Vet VN
D.A.V Life Member
long range for a moderatly experienced shooter would be IMHO 400yds+. For a very experienced shooter, then I would say 600+ yds.
I have rifles that will run the factory ammo they prefer, into 1.5" at 300yds with no problem. Now, with handloads and a properly built rifle, I have gone under 1" at 400-500yds. The shooter makes the difference, with components coming in a close second.
Truing the action and lapping the lugs as well as bedding and a trigger job will help a factory rifle. Other than that, you have to start upgrading components.
+1 I was going to say 500+ yards.
Thanks JustC. I thought it was something enyirely different. That's not too much money. Is it a significant step towards accuracy?
Thanks>Chris
Chris, it makes the rifle more consistent, which in turn makes for more accuracy. When coupled with a properly installed barrel, you will see a huge improvement in accuracy.
My first post was only what I considered a long shot in what conditions. I was in a hurry and didn't have enough time to spew my regular schpiel. There is really a ton of stuff to learn here.
For your first question I have to say now that when I shoot a factory new Savage varmint/target rifle, I can expect .5 MOA or 1/2" @100 yds. The same could and should be said for Tikka, Remington, Winchester and CZ rifles as well. This is shooting quality match ammo. Black Hills tops my list for factory match grade in .308 and .223. I'm not sure what else they make. Federal makes good match ammo too. If you can get .5 MOA @ 100 yds you should be able to get .5 MOA at 1000 yds. AT least that is what the rifle is capable of. Conditions make that far more difficult than one would imagine. Variations in wind followed by velocity make the biggest differences. Also, Tiny differences in the shooters hold make big differences downrange @ 600 and 1K. The thing to do is to learn to be totally consistent in each and everything you do. Notice if you are straining in any way by finding the natural point of aim. It applies at 100 yds as much as 1000 yds. Lots of dry fire practice helps this. Use snap-caps as this will prolong your firing pin while doing this.
Of course the trigger is important. You should have that adjusted before you even go out on your first try to the way you like it. If you can't get it the way you like it replace it with a usable trigger or have a good gunsmith smooth it out for you. Keep in mind the end purposes for the trigger as well. You don't want to be stalking the woods with a 6 oz. trigger. If it's very smooth and breaks quickly (like it should) you can actually do some decent target work with a 1.5# trigger.
Making sure the rifle is properly bedded is right along the same lines as the trigger. Check the fit before you ever take it out. Do what you can, and if the project looks too big then have a gunsmith do it.
If you want to get very serious about shooting then before you start with a factory rifle you might take it in and have the lugs lapped and action/barrel trued. Just do a little checking and make sure it goes to someone who really understands LR accuracy.
As far as cleaning goes, don't overclean. Use a guide. Be careful when bringing the rod back through the muzzle so as not to ding the lands. Just feed it back through gently or get a muzzle guide. Something I went to is using bore foam and letting it sit for 30min-1 hr. Then running proper sized patches with proper sized jags until clean. I no longer use metal shafted rods either. Only Dewey composite rods. The only metal to metal contact is the brass of the rod to the steel of the barrel. The softer brass doesn't want to ding the steel as bad if they do have hard contact.
And lastly, congratulations on the good group! We all live for the times we do that one phenominal group.
So I'll go back to what I posted above: Good accuracy is when your average group is half the size of your target. Long range is the farthest distance where that happens.
Your target might be a bullseye or a bull's lung; it makes no difference. You want your average group to be no larger than half that size at the range you shoot. If the group has spread larger than that, you have ventured into "long range."
Very true. Hunting or otherwise (unless I'm shooting for points) I don't see how I could use any more than this. Good answer.