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30/06 semi-auto with cast lead bullets

jhebisonjhebison Member Posts: 34 ✭✭
edited May 2009 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
I may be off the board here, but I want to practice with my Rem 742 (semi-auto) shooting lead bullets.
Problem I have had is bolt does not eject and chamber the next round. I tried 150g bullet, the action did not unlock after firing. Next tried the 200g at max load by Lyman's book, bolt opened 4/5th the way. Tried increasing over max load by 1 grain and then 2 grains. Same result. Decided I needed some help.
Anyone got experience with cast bullets from a semi-auto rifle?
I can practice with the 200g and shoot as bolt action, meaning I manually work the bolt. But if there is a safe way to let the action cycle, I'd prefer it.
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Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am not sure about the Remington 742 But most semi auto's do not like lead bullets if they are gas operated the lead clogs up the gas port in the barrel . You might want to go back and try jacketed ammo it may not work now because the lead cloged up something . If the 742 is NOT gas operated then this is not the problem but rather not enough recoil generated by the load. Lyman lead loads are made to keep the velocity low so lead bullet will not strip in the bore look at your bullet weight and velocity and compare with jacketed bullet same weight and it's velocity if more then 10% different then lead load will not function in most cases.
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  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,088 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most cast bullets rifle loads are low velocity/pressure (compared to factory ammo). They are not intended to function a semiauto rifle's action. Economy and moderate recoil are the main purposes of these loads. If you try to push the lead bullets too fast leading of the bore will result. You can use the 742 as a straight pull manual operated action. As mentioned, the lead and lube may clog the gas port. A detailed cleaning will be needed before starting to use standard ammo.
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  • XXCrossXXCross Member Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Before you bag this idea, you might want to go back and try using powders that are slower than the ones that are usually prescribed for cast bullet loading. (longer burning curve of these powders keeps the pressures up longer)
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  • flyingtorpedoflyingtorpedo Member Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do a search of the forums as well, link in the upper right of the page. A while back there was a thread about lead bullets in a garand. May get something usefull from that.[?]
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  • jhebisonjhebison Member Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    the 742 is gas operated. Hadn't thought about the effect of the lead on this function. The velocity is low and I wanted to keep it in the mid range of the Lyman book for reasons of leading. The velocity of the lead bullets is probably close to 25% of the same weight of jacketed ones. So I guess this is a clue to my search. Thanks for info.

    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    I am not sure about the Remington 742 But most semi auto's do not like lead bullets if they are gas operated the lead clogs up the gas port in the barrel . You might want to go back and try jacketed ammo it may not work now because the lead cloged up something . If the 742 is NOT gas operated then this is not the problem but rather not enough recoil generated by the load. Lyman lead loads are made to keep the velocity low so lead bullet will not strip in the bore look at your bullet weight and velocity and compare with jacketed bullet same weight and it's velocity if more then 10% different then lead load will not function in most cases.
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  • jhebisonjhebison Member Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    your info makes sense because the powders suggested in the lyman book are fast burning powders. Many are also used in pistols. I was using SR 5749. I'll do some investigating here. Thanks for the input.

    quote:Originally posted by XXCross
    Before you bag this idea, you might want to go back and try using powders that are slower than the ones that are usually prescribed for cast bullet loading. (longer burning curve of these powders keeps the pressures up longer)
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  • jhebisonjhebison Member Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was unable to find any articles that included the words "garand" and "lead".
    Thanks anyway.

    quote:Originally posted by flyingtorpedo
    Do a search of the forums as well, link in the upper right of the page. A while back there was a thread about lead bullets in a garand. May get something usefull from that.[?]
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  • flyingtorpedoflyingtorpedo Member Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Found it for you. [:D]
    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=359893&SearchTerms=cast,garand
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  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    I am not sure about the Remington 742 But most semi auto's do not like lead bullets if they are gas operated the lead clogs up the gas port in the barrel .


    Nonsense. It is a simple machine that requires a given volume of gas in a prescribed pressure range to function. Unless an angry beaver gnawed the barrel port you should be fine. Velocity has nothing to do with it, it is nearly a function of the pressure.

    Lead is almost all I have shot out of my FN FAL's in the last year or two, no lead in the gas systems, or bores. Slow burning powders are the key. H4831 works well, AA3100 worked well too. If I were you I would start at 40 grains and work up till she cycles( with a 180-200 grain bullet).
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Go to the cast boolit forum at castboolits.gunloads.com and you will find a wealth of info on just this topic.

    It would be a mistake to say that cast bullets cannot be successfully shot from a semi auto without plugging the gas system, but it is something that shouldn't be approached by the novice cast shooter or reloader. You've found out one reason already- a load that won't lead the bore or plug the gas system up might not operate the action. On the other hand a load that will work everything that is fine for a jacketed bullet might lead everything up horribly.

    You want a bullet that is about 1/1000 over bore diameter (up to 4/1000 is fine so long as it chambers ok with no resistance), a good lube, gas check, and lead alloy that is fairly hard. You still want to keep velocity under 2000 fps. Doing all this and finding a powder that operates the action is a challenge. As the last poster said, a slow powder is a good choice; 4831, 4350, etc. are slow enough that 3 things are accomplished. First, load density is sufficient to allow complete ignition while (second) providing enough gas to operate the action and (third) not exceeding 2000 fps.

    Medium burn rate powders will also work but you have to modify the loading and you start to get on the border of not enough oomph to cycle the action. If you want my go to load for such applications- 32 gr of IMR 4895 will just operate my Garand with a 200 grain bullet. Normally this weight would be too heavy for the M1 but with a reduced load isn't an issue. Something like 44 would be a max load for a jacketed bullet but too hot for the op rod. Runs about 1800-1900 fps depending on powder lot, primer, bullet design, etc. Start at 28 or so and work up to no more than 35.

    What loads did you try?
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