Another Lee die question

Bubba Jr.

Hi guys,

I bought a Lee 9mm FCD as per suggestions here. I installed it, set it up per the instructions, and I have an issue that has me baffled. After running the ammo through the crimp die there is a deposit of very small brass chips on top of the neck next to the bullet. I've been wiping off the ammo after this step because I don't want all that crap in my pistol or rifle. After wiping off 50 rounds, I have 2 dime sized patches of brass chips on my rag, that looks like gold dust. I've tried changing the settings on the die, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

My .40 Lee FCD does not produce this phenomenon. Any idea what could be causing this?

Thanks again.

PA Shootist

IF the brass chips are from the cases, are your resized cases scratched or scored, from a sizing die that was either rough after manufacture or made rough in usage from grit, dirt, etc? If no visible damage to cases from die, I would think the cases are plated and some of the plating is coming off, or flaking off, either in the resizing process, or under the stress of the squeeze of the FCD.

Perhaps the brass chips you are seeing are copper chips from the bullet being forced into the neck of the case. Is that dust present before applying the FCD? Have you chamfered the case mouth to remove any roughness there? Is the case mouth after resizing rather a tight fit to the bullet? That would be normal for that sort of straight-walled case, that is usually taper-crimped.

The Factory Crimp Die is a squeeze-type collet. The 9x19 as mentioned headspaces on the case mouth; I would think only a taper crimp, to the correct dimension, from a regular seating die would be all that is necessary... Just some thoughts...

smith52

Does this happen with different manufactures of brass? If you have not already, I would try some different brass. How much are you expanding the case mouth when you charge the cases? If the case mouth is expanded to much, when you put it through the FCD it could be chipping the edge of the case mouth.

dcs shooters

Set the die to open the case neck a little more and see if it still happens. You might be shaving the bullet when seating it.

Bubba Jr.

PA Shootist: The chips are definitely brass from the outer edge of the case mouth. They are not present before going through the FCD. The case mouths were minimally expanded and the bullet just barely will stay in the mouth before going through the seating die. The seating die is clean and undamaged, and the FCD is brand new, and I've cleaned it out after each box of ammo I've run through it. The particles that accumulate on the case mouth are flakes of brass that came from the top outer edge of the case mouth. It appears to be only brass, not plating, and I don't see any copper from the bullet. I've looked at this through a high power magnifying lens I have. I haven't chamfered the edge of the mouth. After going through the sizing die, the case looks to me like it is tight to the bullet. The cases appear fine before going through the crimp die with no more unevenness than new cases.

I was content to just run the ammo through the seating die, but I was told by several people on this site and others that I needed to use a FCD also, so I purchased one and it came yesterday. I have over a thousand rounds of ammo that I still need to run through the FCD, but I'm not looking forward to it if I have to wipe off each round.

Smith 52: The only brass that I have reloaded in 9mm at this point is Winchester. Simply because I had so much of it from shooting lots of Wally world white box. I only expand the case enough to just barely hold the bullet until it gets to the seating die.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

smith52

Bubba Jr.
You say you expand the case mouth so it just barely holds the bullet in place; does the bullet slide down into the case or does it just barely sit into the case mouth?

Bubba Jr.

quote:Originally posted by smith52
Bubba Jr.
You say you expand the case mouth so it just barely holds the bullet in place; does the bullet slide down into the case or does it just barely sit into the case mouth?


It seats fine, the mouth just barely holds the bullet in the case between when I let go of it, until it hits the die and is seated. At that point there are no shavings from the bullet or the case, just a normal looking round.

I should probably state that I am using a Lee Turret press, with Lee dies. The rounds that I have loaded vary from FMJ to JHP to TC. And weights from 115 to 147 grains, and include bullets from Hornady, Sierra, & Winchester, all in Winchester brass.

Bubba Jr.

quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
Set the die to open the case neck a little more and see if it still happens. You might be shaving the bullet when seating it.


No the shavings are brass from the case, not copper from the bullet. These are rounds that have been completed for several weeks. It was suggested that I get a FCD and crimp the rounds. I am now going back and crimping the completed rounds. Before I insert them into the FCD there are no shavings of any kind on the bullet. The shavings only appear after I have used the factory crimp die.

Bubba Jr.

Well I solved the mystery and it wasn't anything I did. I took the die apart and looked at the floating crimper under magnification. These are cast, then machined to the final dimensions. Whoever was machining the crimp end of the crimper went way too fast with the feed on his lathe or mill cutting the taper. It looks like fine threads instead of a smooth surface, which in turn shaved off the outer surface of the case mouth.

I also disassembled my .40 FCD and found that it had similar rings (or threads) instead of a smooth surface. It wasn't as bad as the 9mm, but there were some brass shavings up in the floating crimper on it too.

If anyone is using Lee dies, they might want to check you FCD's also.


I'm now going to get in touch with the folks at Lee and see what they have to say. I'll let you know what I find out.

Thank you all for your help,
Joe

partisan

Be sure you let us know what LEE tells you. I am one of them long time RCBS die user that is considering the less expensive LEE dies.

smith52

Joe,
Glad you figured it out, be curious to hear how its handled by Lee.
I've never had any dealings with Lee in that aspect, but my dad has. They gave him good service which is one of the reasons I buy so many Lee products.

Bubba Jr.

I sent Lee Tech Dept. an email Thursday about 2:30, and as of today I still haven't gotten a reply from them. Being somewhat of an impatient old geezer, I got out my Dremel tool, cone grinder, and cone polisher and went to work on the die's floating crimper. I managed to get most of the threads out of the inside of the crimper, and now it works a lot better with very little brass shavings. Some of the grooves were cut so deep, that I couldn't get them out. I may chuck it up in my lathe and reface it.

If I ever get a response from Lee, I'll let you know.

Mobuck

All the stuff I've sent back to Lee was immediately replaced with new parts.

Bubba Jr.

UPDATE:

I finally got a reply from Lee. They basically said that I could grind/polish out the poor finish inside of the floating crimper. And he apologized for the poor quality and said if I wanted to, I could return it for another. I'm guessing that this isn't an isolated incidence, and I don't want another one just like it.

So I ground and polished both of the ones I have, and managed to make them usable. I guess you get what you pay for.

fishmasty

Shucks , when I first started out they sent me a bunch of stuff (that I told them I screwed up) for free without any returns!! Tell them you are going to keep using your broken one and will they please send you another.