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Varmint shooters - ATTENTION!

nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
For all of you .17 caliber fans, the best of the .17's will now be available from the factory!

NEWS RELEASE:

VARMINTING--Remington Plans 17-221 Fireball Factory Rifle: Remington has confirmed plans to release a factory varmint rifle chambered as a 17-221 Fireball. We have no firm dates for a product launch, but we expect the new rifles to be available in the first quarter of 2007. Currently, Remington offers just one 17-caliber chambering, the .17 Remington. That is available as a Model 700?,? BDL?,? or Model 700?,? LV SF. Given the efficiency of the Fireball case, we can expect a 17-221 to comfortably reach 4,000 fps with a 20-grainer, and Remington sources have hinted that a 4000-fps factory load will be offered. In 17 Mach IV wildcat form, shooters are reporting 3,850 fps with 25 grainers. From what we are told, the 17-221 will have a slightly longer neck than a 17 Mach IV. That means you won't be able to use Cooper Arms' loaded 17 Mach IV ammo. We haven't seen a blueprint of the new Remington brass yet, so we don't know if the shoulder is the same, with just a longer neck. Accordingly we're not sure whether the current 17 Mach IV full-length dies will work. But you should be able to neck-size the case with a Redding .221 Fireball Type-S die with smaller bushings. You'll find a lengthy discussion of the new 17-221 Fireball in this thread on Saubier.com.

Comments

  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting -- That should be a sweet little cartridge nononsense. If it's a factory cartridge all the dies, etc. should come quickly from the major co.'s like Redding, RCBS, etc.
  • richbugrichbug Member Posts: 3,650
    edited November -1
    What are they gonna name it? Maybe the 17 Super Duper Ultra Short Mag??????
  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    17-221 RSSMM ?? (Remington Super Short Micro Magnum [:D]).
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My understanding is that it will be named the .17-221 Fireball so folks see the relationship to the Remington development. I originally thought they would go for the .17 Mach IV (the original name) but evidently Remington's legal and/or marketing staff has another idea as usual. However, if we're going to vote, I think I could run with either the .17 RSSMM or the .17 SDUSM.

    Factory availability of ammunition, dies and accessories will do a lot for this little cartridge. Berger has bullets ranging from 15 gr. to 30 gr. and there are some customs that are a bit heavier. A 1:10" twist will handle everything except the heavy customs and a couple of the barrel makers will make a 1:9" twist for those. I've been working with it for about 10 years and it is an absolutely marvelous little cartridge for varmints and just plain funshooting. Youngsters take to it like fish to water due to the mild recoil.

    From Accurate Arms Powder:

    This wildcat cartridge is simply the .221 Remington Fireball case
    necked down to .17 caliber. The O'Brien Rifle Company is the originator of this very efficient cartridge, a little powder goes a long way. Based upon the parent case and the type of rifles used, we used a pressure limit of 52,000 C.U.P., the same as the .17 Remington. As there are no doubt many versions of this cartridge in existence, caution is advised in approaching the listed maximum charge.

    - If remember the story correctly, Vern use the Baby Sakos for the first rifles. -

    Best.
  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Neat round. Nothing a standard 17 Rem cannot do....
  • VarmintGuyVarmintGuy Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    dcloco: Don't you think though that the new 17 Remington Fireball will do about 95% of what the 17 Remington does - but will do it for several hundred (maybe a couple thousand?) rounds longer!
    Barrel life and cartridge efficiency are valuable assetts for a cartridge to have.
    I have a 17 MachIV and consider it an outstandingly accurate, efficient and lethal Varminting round! Its also slower to heat a barrel in a Colony Varmint situation than is a 17 Remington!!!
    That my friend is also an important assett!
    I personally am excited about Remingtons new offering and intend to add one of these to my Varminting arsenal and yes, it will sit in my safe right along side 3 other Remington 17 caliber centerfires (A Remington 700 BDL, a Remington 700 Classic and a limited factory offering Model 700 VSS (Varmint weight 26" barrelled all stainless Varminter).
    Good for Remington - the more offerings they come out with THE BETTER, I feel.
    Hold into the wind
    VarmintGuy
  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Not 100% sure, have not shot one. But, I would venture to say, barrel round count will be the same. 17/221 with 20 gr at 4000 FPS will be generating the same heat as a 17 Rem with 20 gr at 4000 fps. Still takes X amount of powder to push a 20 gr bullet of the same caliber at the same speed.

    Not sure on the barrel heat issue, but has anybody compared same barrel diameters of the two calibers with each other?

    Any two rifles, shooting the same weight of bullet, at the same speed, should have the same amount of heat generated that they are trying to expel through the metal of the barrel... NO?

    The HMR's were cool. Until the ammo got pricey. I can load 100 rounds of 223 and reach out to 600 yards, for the same price as 100 rounds of HMR's.

    Same with the WSM's & WSSM's. All of hoopla surrounding these...AND the false advertising (NOT comparing apples to apples) was a farce.

    Are the W's a good round? Yes, but, at the speeds they are pushing, they will eat throats sooner.

    Time will tell.

    Yes, I DEFINITELY like seeing new calibers and innovations....that is what keeps us going. I do not like seeing claims based on false, inaccurate, or incomplete stated data though.

    Bottom line - if a new round gets more people in this hobby/sport/obsession, then I am DEFINTELY ALL FOR IT!

    Oh...the round count question...my 17 Remington easily goes 300 rounds without cleaning. Depends on the powder being used, as usual.

    Please, come back and post pics and results.
  • remingtongeoremingtongeo Member Posts: 178
    edited November -1
    What kind of range do you think? 300, 400? I don't have experience with 17's except the HM and the HM2. The HM was good on little doggies at 200-250.
  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    I believe the range will be near the end at 425/450 for the 17 Fireball.

    Biggest thing...will be wind. Next...bullet running out of speed.

    Looking at SOME data last night...the 17 Fireball starts out 400-600 FPS slower than the 17 Rem.

    Should be a VERY accurate round. Recoil? I doubt this will have ANY recoil. My 17 Rem is next to nothing. I believe the rack slamming back on my 10/22 is close to the same recoil.
  • ironquackerironquacker Member Posts: 86 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did not think there was anything better than 22-250, until I tried the 17 Remington.Now you tell me they are going to do a 17-221.My 9 year old grandaughter will love it.
  • Bill JordanBill Jordan Member Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A Prarie Dog busting buddie and I each have custom Rampro's built in .17 Mach IV BECAUSE there was no recoil! Better to witness down range effects. We would shoot on a private ranch in WY and did not notice any greater wind effect than .223. Not a scientific test, but neither is prarie dogging!!
  • dclocodcloco Member Posts: 2,967
    edited November -1
    Bill Jordan - yep. When the adrenaline is running!

    My 17 Rem is affected by the wind. Anything over 10 mph and I put it pack in the pouch....but bring out the 223!
  • rhaney2rhaney2 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    For all of you .17 caliber fans, the best of the .17's will now be available from the factory!

    NEWS RELEASE:

    VARMINTING--Remington Plans 17-221 Fireball Factory Rifle: Remington has confirmed plans to release a factory varmint rifle chambered as a 17-221 Fireball. We have no firm dates for a product launch, but we expect the new rifles to be available in the first quarter of 2007. Currently, Remington offers just one 17-caliber chambering, the .17 Remington. That is available as a Model 700?,? BDL?,? or Model 700?,? LV SF. Given the efficiency of the Fireball case, we can expect a 17-221 to comfortably reach 4,000 fps with a 20-grainer, and Remington sources have hinted that a 4000-fps factory load will be offered. In 17 Mach IV wildcat form, shooters are reporting 3,850 fps with 25 grainers. From what we are told, the 17-221 will have a slightly longer neck than a 17 Mach IV. That means you won't be able to use Cooper Arms' loaded 17 Mach IV ammo. We haven't seen a blueprint of the new Remington brass yet, so we don't know if the shoulder is the same, with just a longer neck. Accordingly we're not sure whether the current 17 Mach IV full-length dies will work. But you should be able to neck-size the case with a Redding .221 Fireball Type-S die with smaller bushings. You'll find a lengthy discussion of the new 17-221 Fireball in this thread on Saubier.com.
  • rhaney2rhaney2 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    For all of you .17 caliber fans, the best of the .17's will now be available from the factory!

    NEWS RELEASE:

    VARMINTING--Remington Plans 17-221 Fireball Factory Rifle: Remington has confirmed plans to release a factory varmint rifle chambered as a 17-221 Fireball. We have no firm dates for a product launch, but we expect the new rifles to be available in the first quarter of 2007. Currently, Remington offers just one 17-caliber chambering, the .17 Remington. That is available as a Model 700?,? BDL?,? or Model 700?,? LV SF. Given the efficiency of the Fireball case, we can expect a 17-221 to comfortably reach 4,000 fps with a 20-grainer, and Remington sources have hinted that a 4000-fps factory load will be offered. In 17 Mach IV wildcat form, shooters are reporting 3,850 fps with 25 grainers. From what we are told, the 17-221 will have a slightly longer neck than a 17 Mach IV. That means you won't be able to use Cooper Arms' loaded 17 Mach IV ammo. We haven't seen a blueprint of the new Remington brass yet, so we don't know if the shoulder is the same, with just a longer neck. Accordingly we're not sure whether the current 17 Mach IV full-length dies will work. But you should be able to neck-size the case with a Redding .221 Fireball Type-S die with smaller bushings. You'll find a lengthy discussion of the new 17-221 Fireball in this thread on Saubier.com.


    Yes and it is a very accurate rifle/cartridge
    I Did get to fire one of the prototypes at the recent sales meetinmg at our club.
    The rifle had over 200 rounds fired and not cleaned and it still shot less than 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds.
    I think it will be a winner,no recoil,less noise but a lot of accuracy for the money.
    The brass appeared to be the 221 fireball necked down to .17 with a 30 deg shoulder.
    also,fired the 300 ultra mag with level 3 ammo and thats a wallop to your shoulder.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Roger,

    Welcome to the GB forums! I've swapped some information with you over on Benchrest Central a couple of times a while back.

    Thank you for the information about the shooting session.

    Best.
  • FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    [:0][:0][:0][:0] Oh Christ! Thats what I need another tack driven Varmint gun! Thanks NN!!!![^]
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FrancF,

    My sincere apologies but I am looking out for your best interest for the long run...

    Between the liberals, the owl watchers and the flipping Federal Gubment land closures, we all stand the distinct possibility of being charged and attacked, yes, overrun by those cute little furry prairie dogs every time we enter the field. They are breeding all out of proportion and then being protected by every little money grubbing group that can either file a law suit or capture the stilted thinking of the all of those bleeding hearts in the U.S.

    You owe it to yourself, your children and even the Nation to be able to stand your ground and defend our freedoms from the hideous onslaught of the legions of prairie dogs and other vermin! The only solution is the addition of more hyper-accurate varmint rifles to our shooting batteries. These small capacity cases don't use much powder and the recoil is minimal so you can watch the hits and have very little if any loss of time in recovery to aid in getting onto your next shot faster.

    Yes, I'll accept your thanks and then urge you on to the battlefields of the near west and western United States, fully equipped with your newest and bestest varmint rifles in order that you can make the greatest accounting of yourself in the battles that rage on every day. Don't build one, build two! This will allow one to cool while the other is seeing duty as our protector. Both rifles will have a longer and more productive life when used in this manner. And remember, it's not a job, it's an HONOR! I salute you!

    [:D] [:D] [:D]

    Best.
  • ChetStaffordChetStafford Member Posts: 2,794
    edited November -1
    BRAVO well writen Nononsense
  • wanted manwanted man Member Posts: 3,276
    edited November -1
    I'm thinking that's a joke, so I'll reply in like fashion:


    *lol* THAT'S FUNNY *lol*
  • dakotashooter2dakotashooter2 Member Posts: 6,186
    edited November -1
    Cool..... maybe in 5 or 10 years we'll even be able to get ammo for it.[B)][B)]
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,438 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And we re-opened a THREE-YEAR old thread because....?
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    And we re-opened a THREE-YEAR old thread because....?

    A spammer tagged it (learn engrish here), bringing it back to life. That and the folks that don't notice post dates.
  • FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    And we re-opened a THREE-YEAR old thread because....?

    A spammer tagged it (learn engrish here), bringing it back to life. That and the folks that don't notice post dates.


    JustC now has eyes in the back of his head looking for spam, nothing more[:D]
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have yet to see one. What do they look like[}:)][:D]
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