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NO MORE REMINGTON BULLETS FOR ME
03lover
Member Posts: 67 ✭✭
I will not be buying any more Remington Bullets, because Remington doesn't produce bullets to the size stated in their components lists or the label on the boxes.
My first example: Middle of last year I purchased (1000) Remington 130 grain FMJ 38 Super bullets listed as .356" diameter in the Remington components list and in the Midway USA catalog. I wanted to start working with a new 38 Super. When I received the bullets from Midway USA, the Remington bar code label stated .356" 130 grain FMJ. When I opened the box and checked five of the bullets with a micrometer, they measured .355". I called Midway and they didn't know this problem existed. I called Remington and was told they manufactured those bullets to .355" and .356" but didn't change the labels on their boxes because they buy millions of boxes at a time and it would be too costly the change the boxes or labels every time they went from .355" diameter bullets to .356".
This is pretty stupid to me when I expect to receive the bullet diameter I order and Remington Lists.
This same problem occurred again within less than a year. This time after using about (800) of the .355" diameter, 130 grain FMJ bullets load testing in two 9mm's and one 38 Super and deciding the .355" bullets were working out well in several loads, I tried to order the same bullet again. No one had them listed but I found a Remington 130 grain ,355" diameter MC (metal clad) bullet listed in Powder Valley. I ordered (1000) but much to my surprise when they arrived, they measured .356". Another call to Remington and I got the same stupid answer, "They could be .355" or .356", whatever they are producing at the time. I sent the bullets back because I wasn't going to waste another (800) bullets to load testing.
No More Remington Bullets For Me.
By the way, I did call Winchester and Magtech and they both said their bullets are manufactured to the diameters listed in their component data and the diameters will always match the stated diameter on the boxes or bags. Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Winchester and Magtech can get it right, why can't Remington.
My first example: Middle of last year I purchased (1000) Remington 130 grain FMJ 38 Super bullets listed as .356" diameter in the Remington components list and in the Midway USA catalog. I wanted to start working with a new 38 Super. When I received the bullets from Midway USA, the Remington bar code label stated .356" 130 grain FMJ. When I opened the box and checked five of the bullets with a micrometer, they measured .355". I called Midway and they didn't know this problem existed. I called Remington and was told they manufactured those bullets to .355" and .356" but didn't change the labels on their boxes because they buy millions of boxes at a time and it would be too costly the change the boxes or labels every time they went from .355" diameter bullets to .356".
This is pretty stupid to me when I expect to receive the bullet diameter I order and Remington Lists.
This same problem occurred again within less than a year. This time after using about (800) of the .355" diameter, 130 grain FMJ bullets load testing in two 9mm's and one 38 Super and deciding the .355" bullets were working out well in several loads, I tried to order the same bullet again. No one had them listed but I found a Remington 130 grain ,355" diameter MC (metal clad) bullet listed in Powder Valley. I ordered (1000) but much to my surprise when they arrived, they measured .356". Another call to Remington and I got the same stupid answer, "They could be .355" or .356", whatever they are producing at the time. I sent the bullets back because I wasn't going to waste another (800) bullets to load testing.
No More Remington Bullets For Me.
By the way, I did call Winchester and Magtech and they both said their bullets are manufactured to the diameters listed in their component data and the diameters will always match the stated diameter on the boxes or bags. Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Winchester and Magtech can get it right, why can't Remington.
Comments
I have seen the same thing you have. I find the larger the caliber, the less sensitive the accuracy of that firearm is to .001" variations in bullet diameter.
My match grade 9mm and 38 Super does not tolerate .001" changes in bullet diameter. Both will handle one or the other diameters, .355" or .356" much better than the other. This is quite normal for a well fitted pistol that can shoot tiny groups.
There are a lot of pistols available that can tolerate all sort of changes and keep on ticking, but they rarely shoot the tiny groups I have to have.
I have a Star BM Spanish 9mm service pistol that will eat everything I can chamber in it, but the best groups fired in the Star would be considered poor at best if compared to the 9mm match.
However, as you stated you are shooting match...then what are you doing loading Remington? Their stuff isn't match grade. Stick to a match bullet for match and match practice.
I'll keep buying Remington because I don't use it within parameters that it wasn't made for. It will go bang consistently and put them all in the 10 ring on an aimed fire string.
I agree with you that in 50 yd. (or 50m) competition a 1.5" X-ring is pretty tough to hit. It's even tougher to hit when you don't have a bullet that has ever been made to tolerances that will consistently hit that. You have to get a match bullet made to those tolerances and work loads up to get those tolerances. Remington does not make match bullets of that class. They make bullets that hit in the X-ring of an upper torso score silhouette. Which is about 7" tall and 2-3" wide depending on who makes it. That's at 25m.
My point is here, is that Remington makes good bullets for the intended use. They are not on the cutting edge of bullet accuracy. Either pistol or rifle. They never really have been.
And yes, I'm sure bean-counters have way too much to do with it. Remington produced the best "off the shelf" rifle for accuracy for years. But they would never produce a bullet to make it shoot that good. It has been this way long before Cerberus Capital bought them. Go figure???[?] [}:)]
You are right that Remington bullets are not of match quality and you don't understand why I am using them. I will explain.
Like everyone, we all have a limit to what we can or want to spend on shooting supplies. Match shooters shoot a lot, they practice a lot. For practice, the ammo does not have to be match grade to hone a shooters shooting skills. I try many different brands and styles of bullets and when I find one that shoots well enough for my practice work, I use it knowing the cost is at least half that of the better bullet. The brass would be brass that seen use, not my best sorted and weighted brass. I think you now understand why I may use bullets of lesser quality at times, BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.
I even use my own cast bullets for some of my shooting.
I fully understand the reason for shooting match components. tough as it is, I buy match for match work and precision practice. I guess I haven't spent enough time score shooting as opposed to group shooting to say I'm okay with shooting Remington bullets for match practice. I can see shooting high quality .22 ammo for match practice. But when you get bullets that want to send 4 out of five slightly under a one and a half inch group, why would you use them? Why, when I can get bullets that put five out of five in slightly under a half inch group consistently. As many have told me, dry firing will do you more good than running bad ammo down a barrel. Bad ammo that won't go close enough to where you exactly want that is just burning up barrel life. You start to question your calls to get that shot where it was supposed to go. You make mental adjustments that aren't necessary.
I'm leaning my position here towards rifle shooting. If you do something like cowboy action, IDPA or some other competition where speed is of equal importance to "relative accuracy" then I can see practicing with them. But to me, if it was "relative accuracy" that you seek in practice and you can get that from them then why not use them if they are the best alternative to buying match bullets? It really doesn't matter if they are .001" under or over as long as they shoot well enough for practice and are safe to use.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Dry firing is great for several types of practice. One of my weak points is recovering from recoil with a good sight picture and another is resisting the urge to push into a shot, especially in timed and rapid fire. Sure, I can play Russian roulette with a revolver and pushing into a shot that doesn't go bang makes me look pretty silly, but it isn't the 1911 style gun I usually shoot in three different calibers.
There just isn't enough recoil with dry firing to simulate real firing and the opportunity to work on my weak points. The top dogs are never afraid of me entering a match against them. I will never be that good. I am there to enjoy myself but I do take it seriously. More of my shooting is against myself. I mean to enjoy myself and be serious enough to try to do better while still having fun. If my shooting got so serious that it was to become all work and no fun, I will quite shooting.
I can see why you need to fire live rounds. I can also see when and why you wouldn't use match grade bullets. My whole thing is that for all the things Remington has done that drives me nuts, they do get some things right. I accidentally found that their PSP bullets are shooting the best out of my 7mm TCU. I shoot a lot of Remington pistol bullets for what I do and that's not competition but defensive shooting. I hit what I need to simply to stay proficient. If the necessary accuracy is there what does it matter if they are .001" smaller? If it's not giving you accuracy look around for other deals. I shot a lot of Winchester pistol bullets as well. I don't find them in stores as much as I see Remington. One guy I know shoots Montana Gold bullets. They're plated not jacketed buy they work. Just another option...