New to Reloading and Question

Duke14

Hi all, I started reloading about 9 months ago (before the run on the market). I recently purchased some 147gr AP Steel Core bullets for loading into 7.62x54R. I just wanted to see how good they really were at punching through steel. I also bought a couple boxes of Winchester with FMJ 189gr bullets. I had not fired this caliber before but found a M44 in excellent condition so I was anxious to try it out. Anyway, shooting at an old steel pipe (3/16" in) the AP bullets only made it half way into the metal and to my surprise the FMJ punched clean through. I used a 44gr load (don't recall which powder but it was SAMMI spec out of the Hornady manual. I also pulled the bullet on one of the FMJs and it was also about 44gr of powder. Is this just a factor of the heavier weight FMJ bullet or did I get ripped off on fake AP's?

babun

Fake AP's ???? just about any PROPER loaded 7.62x54r bullet would go thru 3/16" steel. I have a bad feeling about you not knowing what powder you used 44 grains of. You MUST compare apples to apples. Your
load may have been a lot tamer than you think. Most commercial loaded
7.62x54r ammo is slightly down loaded compared to military issured
ammo. Almost all of that caliber ammo when shot thru the short M44's
kick hard and throw flames out the muzzle. BE CAREFUL !! Many AP bullets
have a small hard pointed "pin" or core, so the jacket may have wedged
into the steel and the core kept going. BE CAREFUL with your reloading.
bob

Duke14

Thanks for the quick reply; the powder I used was H4895, 44gr which was a medium load (Hornady) for a 150gr bullet. Although its interesting what you had to say about the AP coming apart I fired 10 rounds with the same (ineffective) results. This is the first bullet that I did not have EXACT reloading data for so yes I was very careful (hand and eye protection). I will do more research before loading any more of these rounds. Thanks for the advice!

Dave

bpost

For your bullet to not penetrate a 3/16" plate it had to be going under about 1400 FPS with impact at about 1000-1,200 FPS. That is about 1,000 FPS too slow. Even a cast lead bullet in a 30-06 will blow a hole in that thickness of steel at 100 yards. They are launched at about 1800 FPS.

I suspect your bore is way oversize and your powder charge is way too low to get any MV from the rifle. If you shoot it on paper does it keyhole or show tipped bullets? Do you have access to a chronograph?

sandwarrior

Duke14,

I would expect 44 gr. of 4895 to be on the low side for that case. I'm thinking you would probably end up more around 50 gr. for maximum load and performance. Although, I don't see 44 gr. as not giving enough power for the AP's not to punch that steel. I'm betting the 44 grs. of powder behind the 189 gr. bullets has a lot more pressure in it than does the 4895. You might try reloading the 150's with the Win powder(ball type?) and see if that gives you better results. Or you can go get some W748 or W760 and find Winchester powders data online or in the latest Sierra or Hornady manuals. You might look into the data and find a load for the 189's in the 190 class and work up a load of H4895 to see if it's just your bullets or your powder.

Something to find out here is if your bore is .308 or .3105. The newer 7.62x39 is .3105 and the older 7.62x54 is supposed to be .308. A gunsmith should be able to determine that for you.

Edit:

quote:Originally posted by jonk
The mosins were all .3105 nominal except a few of the early Finns.



That may well be your answer. If you are shooting .308's down a .3105 bore then you could be getting a lot of blow-by and not getting the necessary velocity. Do your cases look all smoky? As opposed to smoke around the neck area only? Also, what cases are you using? They may be very loose in the chamber. Also, where did the 189'* vs. the 150's? high or low?

jonk

The mosins were all .3105 nominal except a few of the early Finns.

I agree, something odd here. 44 gr of 4895 isn't a world beater but should certainly punch through 3/16" of steel if a cast lead bullet at 1400 fps will do so (and they do, albeit leaving a ragged hole)

Tailgunner1954

A minor point, just because it has a steel core, dosn't mean it's AP. Several countries use a mild steel core to get a longer but lighter bullet. IOW it you would be hard pressed to call any 9x18 Makarov round a AP, even though a lot of them have steel cores

You could cut one bullet apart and take a look for yourself.
Below are some actual AP sectoned bullets

1916 vintage 7.62x54R AP

Chinese made 14.5x114 Russian

50 BMG AP (the loading is a reduced velocity one, to simulate long range velocities)

Duke14

Thanks for that TailGunner! I'm thinking you probably got it nailed though I do appreciate all the other replies...I'm learning a lot; this is a great forum!

sandwarrior

I agree, you learn something new all the time. I ALWAYS assumed steel cores were for added penetration...not to extend form[:0][B)] But, it's all good...cause I can blab it all over the internet now[:D]

p.s. awesome pics there Tailgunner