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Need .45acp load for defense
bpking
Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
Just starting to reload .45acp for the first time. Have nosler .451 185gJHP bullets and once fired cases to work with. I need a good defensive load. Any suggestions?
Comments
FWIW, the loads I use are under what the factory uses and I get less than factory velocity. The JHP's I use are the same bullets you buy in loaded ammo.
manufacturer you can find. If you were ever in a major court case of any kind, you know it's not what happened that matters, its how the story is told. Why give some lawyer a chance to tell the jury how "you planned to kill anyone that got in your way, with your home made ammo".
Reload all you want...but load it to carry with factory ammo. Not just MY humble opinion.....bob
Also I have never read of an actual case where this issue came up, just rumors and possibilities of it happening. Does anyone have a link to an actual case where someone was found guilty solely because of the round they were using?
I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I hear so many things on the internet that turn out to be based on theory and not fact, that I have become very skeptical of info that just doesn't add up.
I mean you can kill someone just as dead with a sharp stick as you can with multiple shots from a gun. Using the logic that a reload is somehow more dangerous, is like saying that you put too sharp of a point on the stick you intended to use for self defense. Or, am I totally missing the point?[:0]
"Did you load your own ammo with the intent to kill? And in your own opinion, is factory ammo less than lethal?"
I am sure states have some laws about it, but in my opinion if you get lawyer that's pretty sharp he's going to work that issue very hard.
I think the scariest question the prosecution could ask you if you were in the hot seat.
"Did you load your own ammo with the intent to kill? And in your own opinion, is factory ammo less than lethal?"
I am sure states have some laws about it, but in my opinion if you get lawyer that's pretty sharp he's going to work that issue very hard.
And my answer would be " I loaded my ammo to defend myself from unprovoked attack by persons trying to inflict incapacitating injuries or death to myself or my loved ones. My loaded ammo is no more or less lethal than factory ammo, but by using the same quality components and doing it myself, I can save money." Also, "In a perfect world the police would protect me, and I wouldn't have to defend myself from criminals, But this isn't a perfect world, is it?"
At that point the jury would be excused, I would be released, my guns would be returned to me, and I would have sent a message to the bad guys, that I will fight back.
By the way, I live in Ohio, where a castle doctrine type of law was passed and signed into law last year, thank God!
quote:Originally posted by FrancF
I think the scariest question the prosecution could ask you if you were in the hot seat.
"Did you load your own ammo with the intent to kill? And in your own opinion, is factory ammo less than lethal?"
I am sure states have some laws about it, but in my opinion if you get lawyer that's pretty sharp he's going to work that issue very hard.
And my answer would be " I loaded my ammo to defend myself from unprovoked attack by persons trying to inflict incapacitating injuries or death to myself or my loved ones. My loaded ammo is no more or less lethal than factory ammo, but by using the same quality components and doing it myself, I can save money." Also, "In a perfect world the police would protect me, and I wouldn't have to defend myself from criminals, But this isn't a perfect world, is it?"
At that point the jury would be excused, I would be released, my guns would be returned to me, and I would have sent a message to the bad guys, that I will fight back.
By the way, I live in Ohio, where a castle doctrine type of law was passed and signed into law last year, thank God!
No argument from me![:D] Now you need to convince the jury.
PLEASE Use only factory loads for defense. The Courts will crucify you for using home made body destroying hollow points and vast quantities of powder to excede factory balistics to inflict excess * harm & suffering to this poor misunderstood victim of society. Masaad Ayoob has stated this many times. He is a law enforcement officer & lawyer who is on our side. Practice with your reloads, but sight in & carry the best you can afford, your life depends upon it AND your future residence. Eddie, CCW since 1974-- California no less!!! be[8D]
The lawyer at my CPL course said the same thing. Use factory loads for carry.
Can anyone produce an example of a lawful self defense shooting where handloaded ammo became an issue? I didn't think so[:D]
Now, if you were at the range practicing and all you had with you was handloaded ammo and some crazed lunatic started shooting at you would you defend yourself with you handloads[;)]
After I shot a moose or caribou in bear country with my hand loads I changed the ammo in the gun to Federal Premium factory ammo. I did that just in case I was attacked by a bear. If I had my hand loads in the gun and it went CLICK rather than BANG, it was my fault, my problem, no recourse for my survivors. However, if the factory ammo went CLICK and I was turned into puree by the bear my family could ask Federal to kick a few bucks in for my kids.
I buy Hydra shocks or golden sabers for my house gun(s) for that reason. I shoot each box up and buy a new one every three or four years. Factory ammo is lawyer proof if you shoot it into a bad guy and your survivors lawyer friendly if it goes CLICK when it was supposed to go BANG.
My .02
Buy Factory Ammo....for self defense.
One other reason to carry factory ONLY in defense and dangerous hunting locations. I got this from hunting, a lot, in bear country while living in Alaska.
After I shot a moose or caribou in bear country with my hand loads I changed the ammo in the gun to Federal Premium factory ammo. I did that just in case I was attacked by a bear. If I had my hand loads in the gun and it went CLICK rather than BANG, it was my fault, my problem, no recourse for my survivors. However, if the factory ammo went CLICK and I was turned into puree by the bear my family could ask Federal to kick a few bucks in for my kids.
I buy Hydra shocks or golden sabers for my house gun(s) for that reason. I shoot each box up and buy a new one every three or four years. Factory ammo is lawyer proof if you shoot it into a bad guy and your survivors lawyer friendly if it goes CLICK when it was supposed to go BANG.
My .02
With all due respect, I assume you are joking? A competent handloaders ammo doesn't go "click" any more often than factory ammo.
I admit I've had my handloaded ammo fail to fire on a couple of occassions in the past 25 years, but I've also witnessed two misfires of factory ammo over the same period (used by friends). One was factory Federal the other was Winchester Supreme.
On neither of the four occassions mentioned was any game lost or wounded. One of my failures was at the range the other was while hunting, but there was time for a second (lethal) shot.
On the factory ammo one was at the range the other was on an unneccesary follow up shot(deer running after first lethal shot).
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
One other reason to carry factory ONLY in defense and dangerous hunting locations. I got this from hunting, a lot, in bear country while living in Alaska.
After I shot a moose or caribou in bear country with my hand loads I changed the ammo in the gun to Federal Premium factory ammo. I did that just in case I was attacked by a bear. If I had my hand loads in the gun and it went CLICK rather than BANG, it was my fault, my problem, no recourse for my survivors. However, if the factory ammo went CLICK and I was turned into puree by the bear my family could ask Federal to kick a few bucks in for my kids.
I buy Hydra shocks or golden sabers for my house gun(s) for that reason. I shoot each box up and buy a new one every three or four years. Factory ammo is lawyer proof if you shoot it into a bad guy and your survivors lawyer friendly if it goes CLICK when it was supposed to go BANG.
My .02
With all due respect, I assume you are joking? A competent handloaders ammo doesn't go "click" any more often than factory ammo.
I admit I've had my handloaded ammo fail to fire on a couple of occassions in the past 25 years, but I've also witnessed two misfires of factory ammo over the same period (used by friends). One was factory Federal the other was Winchester Supreme.
On neither of the four occassions mentioned was any game lost or wounded. One of my failures was at the range the other was while hunting, but there was time for a second (lethal) shot.
On the factory ammo one was at the range the other was on an unneccesary follow up shot(deer running after first lethal shot).
I reiterate; Factory ammo is lawyer proof if you shoot it into a bad guy and your survivors lawyer friendly if it goes CLICK when it was supposed to go BANG.
I have had so few failures to fire with handloads they have become memorable. One went click because of no anvil one had no compound in it. I have had a dead 38 spl on my desk for years that someday I plan on pulling down and looking at the primer, someday..
But; that is not the point.
I am 99.9999% confident they will go bang, but if I am being eaten by a bear it would be tough to be my own witness at trial. So I put in factory ammo after the game was taken to cover the .0001%. [:D] Maybe it was a reward to myself too, I shoot so little factory ammo that having it in the magazine makes me feel wealthy while in the agony of humping out a moose hind quarter. [:)]
I think I'd be more leary of carrying the now discontinued Black Talons than I would handloads[;)]
I am more concerned that the OP says: "Just starting to reload .45acp for the first time." and wants to jump into duty ammunition right away. There is definitely a learning curve and I still don't trust myself enough to load defense ammo. If I am assaulted at or on the way to or from the range, I will of course apply whatever I have with me.