Powder question!

laylandad

Does anyone have any idea what type of powder Remington uses in it's rifle loads?? I anm curious to know, because most of my reloading manuals have a starting load greater than what is in the factory load. I have pulled 20 rounds and each load weighed exactly 52.5gr.
Don't get me wrong, the factory ammo loaded with 150gr Bronze Point shoots great, but I don't want to keep spending $28 a box on the stuff!

LLD

armilite

Factory loadings are generally a secret recipe. They generally use a powder that is not available to the general public. And for sure you can't judge the powder that you take out of a factory loading and compare it to any thing else because you don't know what it is to begin with. Different powders have different burning rates and you can not go by the amount of powder in a case. So you can't say its hotter just because it has more powder in it.

laylandad

What I do know is that it is a ball powder, and most ball loads show a starting point somewhere around 46-47gr. I meant to say in my post that this is actually exceeding the listed loads of ball ammo! I think Remington should do what Winchester did, and market their powder to the reloading comunity!

armilite

Winchester markets their powder to the shooting community but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are loading that powder into their factory ammunition. Just because they have Winchester powder does not mean they actually use it in their loadings. They still use a Winchester powder but it most likely is not available to reloaders and if they do it is very hard to get. I haven't loaded Winchester powder in a while but I used to use their 748 powder in my .223. It was their most popular powder for that caliber at that time and in no way could I load that powder to published velocities of the factory loads and feel safe about it. If I remember right that used to load WC846 in their .223 may be some one else can verify that, but it took years for any one to get their hands on that powder and it was available in limited quantity.

laylandad

Thanks for the info!!

Rocky Raab

Actually, Winchester may be the ONLY company to load their canister-grade powder into their ammo. They feel that it isn't any more cost-effective to produce non-canister grades of their powders for their own use, but canister-grade for their retail sales. So WW factory ammo uses the very same powders you can buy.

Not so with Remington, which doesn't make powder at all. They buy non-canister powder in huge lots, test it and use it as appropriate. The box of Remmy factory ammo you bought last year might have spherical powder in it, and this year's version of the same ammo might have extruded - or even a flake powder. The performance will be the same (or at least within their parameters) but the powder can vary a lot.

With rare exceptions like those Winchester loads, you CANNOT match the powder the factory uses. Period.

BGHillbilly

Best and closet thing you can do to match a factory load is:
1.Match the bullet, since that determines every thing once it leaves the muzzle and many things before.
2.Chronography a factory round.
3. Measure overall length of factory load and match it.
4.Find a powder/load to use that will come close to matching factory velocity and chrony/fine tune loads to match factory velocity you determined in 2.

Optional 1. Since you know the weight of factory powder loads you could check multiple sets of load data to pick a powder that would have a charge wt close to it and give you something close to target velocity.

Optional 2.Years ago Remington had a publication that listed all current factory loads with velocity and pressures. If they still do you should try to pick a powder that will match pressure as well as velocity.

The optional things can help duplicate what we as individuals cannot measure such as rate of burn and pressure curves that can affect barrel harmonics. If you load an identical bullet to identical muzzle velocity you can reasonable expect the same exterior balistics but your zero point may change.

owen219

I understand that factories will never reveal their powder mixtures to public or competitors. And you can't buy what they use at the factory for the same reasons.

Rocky Raab

Here's how it works.

Ammo makers will buy an entire production run of a powder that meets a set of general parameters. Such a run might be 100,000 pounds or more. But because it is a bulk run, that powder is not exactly like any other batch of powder ever made, before or after that one.

The ammo company then works up loads for its suitable cartridges using that powder and loads them until the powder is gone. When it is gone, they order another entire lot - which will also be unlike any other powder ever made - and develop all new data.

A box of Acme .293 Whizbang ammo you bought two years ago might use 46.6 grains of an extruded powder, and a box of the exact same ammo you buy today might have 52.2 grains of a spherical powder.

So... You can't buy the powder they use, not because they are being secretive, but because THEY bought every kernel of it that exists. And you can't duplicate their load because their load can and does change.

sandwarrior

quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
Best and closet thing you can do to match a factory load is:
1.Match the bullet, since that determines every thing once it leaves the muzzle and many things before.
2.Chronography a factory round.
3. Measure overall length of factory load and match it.
4.Find a powder/load to use that will come close to matching factory velocity and chrony/fine tune loads to match factory velocity you determined in 2.

Optional 1. Since you know the weight of factory powder loads you could check multiple sets of load data to pick a powder that would have a charge wt close to it and give you something close to target velocity.

Optional 2.Years ago Remington had a publication that listed all current factory loads with velocity and pressures. If they still do you should try to pick a powder that will match pressure as well as velocity.

The optional things can help duplicate what we as individuals cannot measure such as rate of burn and pressure curves that can affect barrel harmonics. If you load an identical bullet to identical muzzle velocity you can reasonable expect the same exterior balistics but your zero point may change.



That right there will make factory loads cease to amaze you.

As many have said you can't duplicate the loads the factory's use. Honestly, I don't want to. I usually get a lot less than what they print on their box or magazines or in-store buying guides for velocity. Accuracy at times can be decent but is never what you can produce on a consistent basis. Depending on the caliber you're loading for Rem/Win will underload the powder capacity and that further decreases accuracy potential. You gotta remember though their whole point is to make it go bang "within their parameters".