Shotshell reloading - FOLLOW UP QUESTION

calrugerfan

Just curious if standard air rifle bb's can be used as shot when reloading?

If they can, is it advised?

FOLLOW UP QUESTION: Here in California, hunting with lead shot is illegal (as far as I know, I've never hunted) so they have to use steel shot. Wouldn't that be the same as using bb's?

XXCross

In a word.... NO !

zimmden

Air rifle BBs are made of hard steel, much harder than steel shot for reloading. Even though copper plated, they will score the barrel and damage the choke.

geeguy

XXCross: Why do you say "no"? While not advised to do so, the steel is coated with copper, and then inside a plastic wad, so the only issue should be compression thru the choke area, just like you would have with steel shot.

During my youth I reloaded copper BB's into shotguns many times, true it was for an open skeet choke, but there were no real issues or damage.

I'm quite sure I have done many things I should not have while reloading, but I'm interested in the explanation as to "why" this would be so bad.

Looking to learn.

Tailgunner1954

Geeguy
See the answer that zimmden provided.
Steel shot is in the RC 10-12 range, air rifle BB's are in the RC 35-40 range (ball bearings are in the RC 60-65 range). Big difference, esp considering your barrel is in the RC 40-45 range.

geeguy

Tailgunner: Maybe there is something I am missing, BUT, a BB is coated with Copper, and last time I looked, copper is softer then steel. I admit the compression could be an issue.

But consider that a rifle bullet is normally coated with 15% cupronickel and is fired down a steel barrel with no damage, and the above load has the additional plastic wad that sits between the barrel and the shot until exit. So my logic from a "damage" of the barrel point of view should be correct and the hardness of the base coated metal should have little effect on barrel damage. RC of the base material is not a question, it's the material that "may" touch the barrel that's important.

I may be way off base here, but I've done it many times in the past with no damage and the logic of the RC hardness doesn't compute.

As stated by many, not recommended, but the question is of "if" it
would damage.

Further update: Look up Nickel plated shot that was used by many in the '60's in Italy. This is harder then BB's and copper plated shot of that era. This was used as the premier WW load when they had their plant in Italy.

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by geeguy
Tailgunner: Maybe there is something I am missing, BUT, a BB is coated with Copper, and last time I looked, copper is softer then steel. I admit the compression could be an issue.

But consider that a rifle bullet is normally coated with 15% cupronickel and is fired down a steel barrel with no damage, and the above load has the additional plastic wad that sits between the barrel and the shot until exit. So my logic from a "damage" of the barrel point of view should be correct and the hardness of the base coated metal should have little effect on barrel damage. RC of the base material is not a question, it's the material that "may" touch the barrel that's important.

I may be way off base here, but I've done it many times in the past with no damage and the logic of the RC hardness doesn't compute.

As stated by many, not recommended, but the question is of "if" it
would damage.

Further update: Look up Nickel plated shot that was used by many in the '60's in Italy. This is harder then BB's and copper plated shot of that era. This was used as the premier WW load when they had their plant in Italy.

BB's are copper WASHED steel, IE to a thickness of maybe .0005 as a corrossion inhibitor. Copper plating is normaly about .005 thick and bullet jackets are .032 to .050 thick (over a lead core).
So yes, hardness of the base material does come into play, along with the thickness of the coating.

geeguy

OK, I'll stop questioning, but for the record the BB's I have in my house and have loaded in the past say "copper plated" on them. I cut into one and it is plated (I've had these for many years, so maybe different now). I have seen quite a bit of the copper washed from the China ammo. I'll have to look up the information on the Nickel shot which was plated over lead. Still got a plastic wad between whatever is loaded and the barrel.

Bottom line is "don't use it". So our discussion doesn't matter. But thanks for the information, it's always good to learn something.

Old hickory

Consider this: BB out of air rifle - 150 FPS Out of shotgun 1100 Fps plus 11000 Ft. Lbs pressure .... Don't do it unless its a $30 single shot.

geeguy

At the risk of starting this whole thing over again, please read the following from a shot makers web site:
"Lead shot is still the best performer for the money, but environmental restrictions on the use of lead, especially with waterfowl, require steel, bismuth, or tungsten composites. Steel, being significantly less dense than lead, requires larger shot sizes, but is a good choice when cost is a consideration. Steel, however, cannot safely be used in some older shotguns without causing damage to either the bore or to the choke of the shotgun due to the hardness of steel shot. Since tungsten is a very hard metal, it must also be used with care in older guns. Tungsten shot is often alloyed with nickel and iron, softening the base metal".

Tungsten finish is about 63-67 on the Rockwell C scale. Most Nickel and Tungsten is harder then the steel BB's listed above, and they are loaded for shotguns. The FPS is not a consideration due to the fact that many BB/Pellet guns shoot 1100-1200 FPS and the wad acts as a cushion as it crushes. In addition, the harder the shot, the better the pattern since there is little deformation of the actual pellets.

Again, this is not to say "do it", just can't find a good reason not to as long as it's a modern gun that could use steel shot and you use a plastic wad. As stated by the shot Mfg'r, even steel is not recommended due to possible wear of the barrel ID, but I don't see where BB's would be any worse.

Maybe someone who has done this and had barrel damage can respond, but I have done this many times and never had any barrel damage (using fixed skeet chokes).

Duck Head

The lead shot plastic wad is not made of a type of plastic to keep the air rifle shot from piercing through it like the steel hunting ammo and tungsten mix ammo wads. The steel hunting shot WILL compress a little going through the barrel and choke where the air rifle shot will most likely act like a semisolid steel slug plus the steel shot designed wad is MUCH thicker and tougher than a lead shot wad and will compress even more letting the shot pass through.The thin copper "plating" you like to mention is just to make the bb's look pretty and protect the shot from rusting in storage and maybe to keep wear down the the bb guns barrel.Even if you used a steel shot wad with air rifle shot you will still have the uncompressable shot problem and I don't think the wad will make up the difference.I know about the softer hunting shot as I have recovered some from ducks and geese and they had flat spots on them from being pressed against each other at discharge and some were just like when I loaded them. Imagine what the ones in the bottom of the wad have to go through upon ignition. Zero to 800+MPh in a wink! Copper plated lead shot like nickle plated lead shot is NOT plated to make the shot harder altho it does to a small extent. It's to lubricate the shot to help it slip against each other going down the barrel to give you less shot deformation and better patterns,penetration is said to increase too as they slip past feathers and fur easier.See what I mean about slipping?. Try to imagine a bunch of people in a elevator trying to get out at the same time. If they were greased up wouldn't they slip against each other easily going out the door and not jam each other in the doorway? The lead underneath the plating is still prone to deformation but not as much from the lubing qualities of the plating and the very little help from the harder coatings. That's why Winchester called their copper plated shot "Luballoy".Some guys have shot nuts and bolts out of their shotguns with no apparant damage but I won't. Just try to imagine a semi solid steel slug slamming into a choke tighter than skeet at 800+MPH. Some guys get away with it for a while. Why take the chance. You can't put the choke back in or weld the end of the barrel back on ..or would you try it? LOL Hope this helps