Looking for another deer rifle?

jaime7818

Hey guys, I currently shoot a browning bar 30.06 with a 22 inch barrel. I am looking to upgrade to a 270, 7mm, or 300 because of the flater trajectory. I love the BAR's but it seems like they all have 22 inch barrels in these calibers. Thought about a 338, they have 26 inch barrels. I want to be able to take a 300 yard shot with confidence. I will be shooting factory ammo(winchester ballistic silver tips). My price range for a used rifle is about $600-$800. Is a bar gonna be able to give me a tight enough grouping or should i be thinking an X or A bolt. Do i really need a 26inch barrel for this application? Should i be looking into something else? Thanks!

Stilwater36

Have you ever tried a 300 yard shoot with the '06? Try you current Bar and see what it will do at 300. Optic mean a lot at that range along with the trigger. Your SKIL is the big question and the only way you will prove your BAR is to try the 30-06. The 06is a long range cal. and if your love the Bar give it a try, FWIW

Tailgunner1954

300yd is just getting warmed up for the -06. 440 is still well within it's capabilities (the shooters skill is another matter)

ENBLOC

I would take a 300 yard shot with my Ruger in 6.5 x 55...no problem! I agree the .30-'06 is a 300 yard gun easy too! We shoot M-1 Garands at 300 yards with iron sites at local Garand Match late winter/spring.
If you want a "flat" shooter with a 26 inch tube on it I'd seriously be looking at a .264 Winchester Magnum 1st choice or 7mm Remington Magnum 2nd choice. A .338 is overkill for deer. I mostly use a .30-30 or the 6.5 x 55, but just got one with a 7.65 x 53![:D]

jaime7818

OK, my scope is a burris ballistic plex. Its sighted in at 100 yards. I guess i'll give it a whirl this saturday and post feedback. Is the ballistic plex on this scope accurate? I'll assume it is and blame my ammo if its not. And i'll look for the "right" ammo. Any suggestions on factory ammo? Thanks guys. I really do love my BAR 30.06. Its a thing of beauty. 7mm huh? Maybe i have an excuse to buy another rifle now? I was looking at BAR SARARI with a BOSS(beautiful).

Mobuck

Actually, you're doing the 06 and yourself a disservice by zeroing at 100 yards. Using a 165 grain bullet and zero 2" high at 100 will keep you on the brown at 300. You mentioned the 338 Win mag because it has a longer barrel but it won't be significantly different. I have found that shooting a higher recoil rifle accurately is much more difficult. Slight changes in shoulder contact or fore end hold will make a big diff in a high recoil gun. This is just my opinion but it requires twice as much effort (or skill) to shoot good groups with a 300 Win mag than with a 30/06.

ENBLOC

Mobuck has good advice on the 2 inch high and see where you do hit and adjust. I have all my rifles sited in at 100 yards with scope & 50 yards with iron sites. On my 6.5 x 55 I have taped to scope tube the # to set scope to for 200 & 300 to be right on. This rifle has a Leupold III 2.5 x 8 x 32. On other rifles with less than "premium" optics I still have them sited right on at 100 yards and then show bullet drop at 200 & 300 & 400 & 500 yards for a possible "hold-over". The longest shot I ever had here in Michigan on white tail was 130 yards facing me and the 6.5 x 55 did it. I'm not a big fan on recoil. Thats why I like my .30-30 & 6.5 x 55. I have a .30-'06 Savage Bolt with muzzle brake. .303 British, 8mm, 7.65, 6.5 Mausers, 6.5 Jap. That BAR is a beautiful rifle. Guy I know has one in 300 Win. Mag. and it puts deer down too, but with alot of damage. A 300 Savage or 243, 6mm Rem. are great too.

big cds

i have a 300 win. mag, (2) 270's,(1)30-06 in bar plus a bunch of bolt actions. the 300 win mag is far better than the other BAR'S as far as ballistics. all the guns will out-shoot me at 400yds. my advice ----get what you like and don't worry about anybody else. my hunting buddies teased me about over-kill every year. HAPPY HUNTING!!!!!

jaime7818

Thanks guys. I guess i may be getting ahead of myself. What is "keeping it on the brown?" Thanks for the advice Mobuck, ill raise the scope the suggested amount.

sandwarrior

jaime7818,

By your question I think you need to take this rifle to 300 to see what it'll do. Any other rifle you plan to shoot long range with you need to practice, practice, practice with at the range you intend to shoot at before you put the crosshairs on an animal. It's not an invalid question at all though. Just a thought about what the 30-06 will do at long range. Typically I hold about 4" high with a 175 gr. bullet pushed at 2880. With 150's pushed at 2900 out of my other '06 I hold 4.5" @ 100 for a 300 yd. zero. (shorter barrel, not as much throat length)

I believe what Mobuck meant by keeping it on the brown is being able to hit the animal in the kill zone of 5-10 inches. Like a point blank zero. As long as the bullet doesn't go over or under, it hits it's mark. With my examples I'm hitting the center at 300 not the bottom edge of the kill zone.

All that said, if you want another rifle, cause that's what this post sounds like, (and I don't blame you), there are a host of possibilities. Any of the magnums are going to shoot flatter than your 30-06. When you add high bullet BC, thus efficiency, you can extend your range tremendously. IMO, 7mm's have the best natural BC's for normal weights (under 200 gr.) and twists that you normally use. Not saying that going to the extreme in weight(length) and twist wouldn't be prudent, just that it's something you have to have custom done. There are a lot of high BC 6.5 and 6mm bullets with a few .257 cal in between. The .270 caliber also has a naturally high BC in it's range of bullets. So you may consider a .270 Win or a WSM.
with the 6mm's you don't need to go to a magnum. Because it kind of goes to overbore. But the .243 WSSM is a possiblity. It gives a slight edge over the 6mm Rem and .243 (and I do mean slight). The .260 is a great off the shelf choice as is the 6.5x55.

By your profile I see that you are in CA. Most areas outside of any metro in CA have a ton of area to shoot in. it's a big state. Pretty much all of the Eastern side of the state are wide open. If you are in LA it's a long drive, but one you can make in a morning, to get to the high desert and set up your own range. Just make a couple portable target stands, get out there and shoot. It may not be a gun friendly state for some guns but standard rifles aren't really suffering too bad there. Also, several posters here from there who may be able to help you out.

-hope that helps

jaime7818

I appreciate your feedback sandwarrior. What you're saying makes alot of sense. California gun laws are very strict but most rifles that are for hunting are ok to have here. I live in central cali. so i have alot of areas to shoot in within an 1hr. drive. Im gonna start playing with my rifle at 300-500 yard range and adjust accordingly. 7mm and 270 seem about right for me because im old school and practical. Im still gonna get a BAR Safari w/ the Boss because they are badass lookin. Thanks guys!

partisan

I've shot a .308 round into 20" bullseye at 500 yards with iron sights. The 30-06 would make the shot even easier.

PS: I'm not a great shot! Any Marine from the M-14 days could do the same!

BOWWMAN

30-06 500 yards no problem the variable is you, practice, practice practice, All 10 of my garands will shoot out to 600 yards consistantly. The most fun I had was shooting in North GA at a full size deer gong target, someone cut out of metal and painted it white. Laying prone and pulling the trigger and then waiting for the report was so cool. This was all with open sights and was a blast. If you looking for a better barrel length and stronger action look at the new ICON Precision Hunter and the Warlord. Or save you money for ammo and practice.

Eric

cabincowboy

You don't need a 26" barrel and you don't want a 338 Win Mag for 300 yard shooting. You need good optics and a lot of practice for 300 yard shooting. I can group under a quarter at 100 yards with my 30-06 Rem 700, I'm pleased as punch to group inside 4" at 300. My personal favorite for 250 to 350 yard shooting is my 25-06, (24" barrel). If you shoot at 300 yards on a regular basis I would recommed sighting in at 300 yards, the trajectory will be flatter. A good range finder is important for long range shooting. Any shooting over 350 yards is luck for the recreational shooter, sighted in at 300 yards and shooting over 350 yards you can start calculating drop in feet rather than inches.
As long as you have a tight group at 100 yards, your rifle is a good candidate for a 300 yard rifle. At 300 yards any mistake, any equipment problems, or any wind becomes critical.

rong

It'a all in
the confidence you have
in your rig-30-06,308,270
7mm-08 are all more than adequate to shoot
long range, but without confidence
you're out of luck but if this is just
an excuse to buy another deer rifle
then you have some research and fun to look forward
to. 30-06 is a great cal tho

FEENIX

As most have already said, you'll need to put in some range time until you gain the self-confidence required to take the long range shots (you define what long shot is). Of course, you also need to have the proper equipment that compliments your capability and its intended purpose.

There are plenty of used rifles out there if you are patient and do your research. Here's what I've stumbled ...

SAKO M995 in .300 WM with mount and rings (minus scope) for $499



Here's how she shoots (with my first hand load success, 200 NAB, 71.5gr H4831SC, 3.62" COAL at 100 yards - still have more room for refinement) ...



Ruger M77 MKII in .338 WM with muzzle brake (minus scope, it came with factory mount and rings but replace them) for $399.



How she shoots with factory loads (Hornady .225gr SST)



Good luck and happy safe shooting/hunting.

Ed

clownboy

Wow Ed! That .338 is a sweet rifle!!
Hang onto that one.


Brad

FEENIX

quote:Originally posted by clownboy
Wow Ed! That .338 is a sweet rifle!!
Hang onto that one.


Brad


Thanks Brad! Yep, she's a keeper! I have a B&C stock backordered as part of an upgrade .

Ed

losttrail

Furthest successful shot I've been able to range on a bull elk was 425 yds with me Rem 700 ADL .30-06, 22 inch barrel, 180gr BTSP (Hornady Interlock). Single shot, down he went.

As has been said by others, I sight in 2" high @ 100.

My oldest brother used to shoot match competition using a .30-06 to over 1,000 yards, so it is more than capable.

The vast range of bullet wieghts available for the .30-06 make it one of my favorites for anything from varmint up to moose.

Practice is key. The more you shoot, the better you get, as long as your practicing the right things.

Having taken deer and elk with .243, .270, .308 and .30-06, I believe it's all about shot placement, being proficient, and know your and your equipment limitations.

But the .30-06 is more than capable.

ljc2tall

Don't change your scope until you use as it was designed. If you are sighted in at 100 yds., then the next hash mark will be for the 200 yd. target. Then the third hash mark is for 300 yds. and keep going till you run out of hash marks.
I have the bar in a 270 wsm, which I picked up on Gun Broker for 575.00 like new in the box.
Just shot it yesterday at 300 yds. Using the second mark it was low but with the third mark it was right on. I have a pentax 4x12 ballistic plex scope(made by Burris). Just getting it ready for a trip to Kansas in a few weeks.

reddog1981

take a look at win's m70 in a 300wsm, good stuff

FEENIX

quote:Originally posted by ljc2tall
Don't change your scope until you use as it was designed. If you are sighted in at 100 yds., then the next hash mark will be for the 200 yd. target. Then the third hash mark is for 300 yds. and keep going till you run out of hash marks.
I have the bar in a 270 wsm, which I picked up on Gun Broker for 575.00 like new in the box.
Just shot it yesterday at 300 yds. Using the second mark it was low but with the third mark it was right on. I have a pentax 4x12 ballistic plex scope(made by Burris). Just getting it ready for a trip to Kansas in a few weeks.


+1. My .338 WM pictured above is topped with Burris FFII 4.5-14x42 with ballistic plex. I sighted it 2" high @ 100 yards since the range I go to does not have 200 yards. Shot it @ 300 yards and was shooting 1" low with factory ammo (Hornady 225gr SST). In short, I too need to spend more range time with the scope/rifle combo and will be developing a load for it after hunting season.

MrGunz22

Check out a 25-06. Super flat trajectory. 300 yds is a chip shot. I would also go with an a-bolt II, but thats just my .02

jaime7818

So i finally got out to tinker with a 100/300/400 yard shot. We had table, inventive technology shooting vice (loved it)range finder, spotting scope, cold 52 degree's over cast day. I had ballistic silver tips(165), rem. cor lokts(150), and fed. ultra shok(150). Had my Browning BAR, 30.06 with the Burris Fulfield II Ballistic plex scope. For some reason the silver tips werent as accurate as the the core loks at 100 yards. I was able to get a 1.5" groupe at 100 yards with the rem. ammo but a 2" group withe the silve tips. We had hay bales set out at 300/400/500. Lets just say that a five hundred yard shot is a little to much for our factory rifles and ammo. We could barely see the bale that far? I ended up sighting my rifle at about 1/2" high at the 100 yard target to get a good shot at 300 yards. I ended up with a 4" group that drifted over due to the light wind (4 mph's?). The group of 3 ended about 3.5" to the left of the killzone on the target. But it was pretty well centered height wise. Im actually really proud of this group, the rifle needed very little adjustment on the scope. I originally sighted it in out at a buddies house without any tools on a rock when i put the burris scope on it. The only problem was that when we shot at the 400 yard target yesterday, we couldnt hit the paper target at all. I only took two shots but the intimidation factor was enough to get me to stop. If you guys have tried other ammo and had a beter experience let me know. Or if you've had different experiences with these ammo's feel free to comment. I know i need to practice the 300 yard shot because that shot in the field is no joke.. Still not sure what rifle im gonna get. Im really looking the the X-bolt right now. Not sure on the caliber. My buddy took his out that was shooting 270 wsm's and it kicked pretty good but he was all over the place. Not sure why yet, it may not be broken in yet. Thanks guys.

Darth AkSarBen

For really long distance, great knock down, flat shooting trajectory, take a look at the 260 Remington caliber sometime. It's a .308 Winchester that is necked down to 6.5mm Key here to the caliber is the use of very high Ballistic Coefficient bullets that let it shoot further flater than most anything. It will shoot about the same trajectory as the 300 Win Mag, but with a lot less recoil. Intersertingly, the 260 Remington will also have more ft/lb of energy than the .308 Winchester starting at around 300 yards and on up. The bullet just does not slow down as quickly as a lot of others, like 30 caliber or the 243 Winchester.

Here in SW Michigan I have a pretty decent grouping Saiga .308 Winchester. has a 30 round magazine for light loads on prairie dogs and use a 10 round magainze that is factory. Shoots very well.


Pizza Hut box with hand drawn dot on it at 100yards. 5 shot group with the Saiga .308 Winchester.