3000 FPS in 223 Rifle 1in9 twist - Bullet Concern

sigarmsp226

Someone said that if I try and shoot any bullet in my 223 Remington 700 SPS Tactical 20" barrel with 1 in 9 twist at a muzzle velosity of 3000 FPS or more the bullet will not stabilize and could in fact come apart in flight. Can anyone shed any insight to this comment.....Thanks Mark

joshmb1982

cant say i know for certain but it doesnt make any sense to me. 1/9 twists are about the most common ive seen in a 223. and from what ive heard the 223 was designed to be shot froma 20in barrel anyway. i wouldnt try shooting any of the heavier weight bullets out of it but i cant see one breaking up in flight. plus 3000fps isnt exceptional for the 223 to begin with. some of the loads in my books show lighter bullets going at upwards of 3800fps.

sigarmsp226

Josh - Thank you for your feedback. It did not sound right ot me and the guy that mentioned it did not own a 223 bolt rifle but said he had several customers tell him this point....Thanks again....Mark

sandwarrior

Sigarms226,

No, your bullets won't come apart @ the 3000 fps mark with a 1-9" twist. The rotational speed at that velocity is 240,000 RPM. That's pretty well within most jacketed bullets rotational limits. IMO, you would be hard pressed to make any bullet over 50 gr. come apart period, from a .223. You can maybe get the lighter 40-48 gr. bullets to over-rotate and come apart if you push them really hard. Like somewhere in the 3700 fps range. I can't say what the exact number is but the type of bullet you'll have problems with will be thin skinned bullets. Thicker skinned bullets won't come apart.

sigarmsp226

Thanks again Sandwarrior - Seems you are having to provide this old Mississippi boy an Education tonight on these two threads...Thanks again for your comments and direction....Mark

5mmgunguy

sigarms I am pushing 3000 fps through a 1-7 twist barrel and the bullets do not come apart.

sigarmsp226

5mmguy - Thank you Sir - Gonna buy some powder today, load about 20 rounds and push a little lead thru this new barrel. Let you guys know how I do in the next couple of days....Mark

5mmgunguy

Mark, You should be fine. Just stay away for the the thin jackets like Sierra Blitz and and Hornady SXs.

Mobuck

I've pushed the Hornady SX way over 3000fps out of a 22-250 w/o any problems at all. I doubt you can push any bullet except a Hornet design too fast with a 223.

5mmgunguy

Mobuck, its not the velocity that tears them apart it is the centrifical force...you are shooting your 22-250 bullet through a 1-14 twist...I am shooting my 223 through a 1-7...rev per second for a 1-7 twist at 3000 fps is twice that of 3000 fps in a 1-14. You would have to push your 22-250 to 6000 fps to equal the centrifical force that a 3000 fps bullet out of a 1-7 twist would experience...the thin jacket just can't hold it together and comes apart in flight.

CryptoChief

Remember way back when Nosler was concerned about jacket shedding of their newly introduced 40 gr Btip? I believed they used a 22/284 for the testing and, if I didn't read the review wrong, achieved near 4800 fps and the bullet held together just fine. Rifling twist aside, that's still a screamer. Now, that being said, most thin skinned bullets have a "max recommended velicity" or a "velocity not to excede" statement either on the box the bullets came in or in the reloading manuals. As mentioned earlier, the Blitz or, the Hornet bullets are examples. The only bullets I have ever had come apart are the 105 grain A-max in my 1/7 twist 6XC, which so far has limited me to the 115 grain stuff. But in a 223 with "standard" jacket thickness pills, 40 to 75 grains, never a problem.

Cheers,

CC

upsrogue

Hi I'm new to the forum at least as a post or reply so...
I had to add my 2 cents on this one. 5mmgunguy is right on in his reply, he calls it "centrifical force" not the velocity that make them come apart.
I will call it "rotational TORQUE" is what makes the bullets come apart.
I have and made myself a barrel for a 22-243, I went with a 1-7" twist so as to use only heavy bullets. Now I have tried a lot of loads and a handfull of bullet types/brands and everytime I reach about 3000fps bullets start to come apart. I started with Sierra 69gr's and they would blow up long before I reached 3000fps, (and I love all Sierra bullets)BUT they would come apart somewhere between 50 and 100 yrds I know this because of target frame placements. And one time I got a perfect sideways profile hole in the paper at 50 yrds (key hole)I went to Berger 80gr's and they worked great until just above 3000fps and then they were toast. So far Noslers have held together the best but they even have a "rotational torque" limit.

sandwarrior

One thing I had happen to me concerning this, that more than likely will not affect you. I was having bullets come apart at high velocities from my 26" barrel. The same load wasn't coming apart from a friends 24" barrel. We chrono'ed them and sure enough the loads were within 40 fps of each other. The difference in this case was the longer barrel created more friction. Going to the thicker skinned Nosler bullets alleviated the problem.

upsrogue

And to add a kicker to the above I changed out that 1-7" twist barrel and went to a 1-14" twist same gun ect. In the 1-14" twist I can run the velocity way over 3000fps with the same bullets and they don't come apart, they are not as accurate because of the twist BUT they stay together.
I also tried this same 1-7" change to 1-14" twist in a 22-250 and had the same results.
Them bullets just can't handle that fast torque going into that 7" twist and going so fast, this is how I have it figured and have proven at least in my barrels. So it seems it don't matter what the caliber is 22-284, 22-243, 22-250, 223?
And to add to that when Berger bullets come apart they do it right in front of the muzzle, I had a public range RSO come up to me and ask if I was shooting black powder in that rifle? because each time I shot there would be a big cloud of smoke everytime I fired just 2 to 3 foot in front of the barrel. I did'nt see the smoke cause I was trying to find holes in the target at 50 yrds but no holes, it was messing me up big time.
I have shot Sierra 52gr. clocked at 4158fps and they stay together and are very accurate in that 14" twist 22-243, I guess if I want a bigger bullet going that fast I will use my 257 Ackley Imp. I can get a 75gr bullet at 3400fps in it.