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30/06 reloads

joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
edited January 2010 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
im taking a bit of a break from 223 ammo and have moved onto some 30/06 brass i have laying around. it is all once fired (by me) and totally processed with rcbs FL dies cut to legnth ect. being ive never loaded for it befor i did a few and dug out my 1903 a3 to make sure they cycle properly. im finding that probly 1 in 10 is hard to chamber, i have to really push on the bolt handle to close it. there are no marks on the bullet so i know its not contacting the rifling and it has been resized. what could be causeing this??
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Comments

  • laylandadlaylandad Member Posts: 961 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Trim length, COL, dirty chamber, not fully sizing the brass.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    they are timmed to legnth accuording to my reloading books specs, the rifle chambers factory new ammo just fine, and i believe ive set my full legnth sizer die up correctly. the shell holder with the ram all the way up comee just shy of touching the bottem of the die. the decapping pin comes just far enough through the bottem of the case to reliably deprime the case.
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  • sigarmsp226sigarmsp226 Member Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Josh - Not sure but I wounder if you will need to use Small Base Dies to fix your situation. Not sure but what you are describing is simular to what I experienced with my AR-15 and the 223 brass. Not sure but thought I would suggest this in hopes someone else with more experience can comment.....Mark
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    these are all shot out of a bolt action rifles though. from what i understand small base dies are mainly required for semi-autos.
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  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Put the ram and shell holder up tight to the die. That will set the shoulder back a little. Full lenght dies are supposed to be set that way. The chamber in the gun they were shot in might be loose letting the brass stretch.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ok ill turn the die down a lil more tomarrow and see if that solves the problem.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Josh
    It may not be a die problem, but a (lack of) lube issue.
    Are you applying a little bit of lube to the inside of your case neck?
    IOW it's possible to pull the shoulder forward slightly when the expander ball is pulled out of the neck.
    Or it could be that the original chamber this brass was fired from is larger in the base diameter than your 03a3 is.

    One easy way to tell exactly where your problem lays is to "smoke" the case with some candle soot (or you can use a sharpie pen to color the case). Try to chamber one of the problem cases than examine it rub marks. Don't worry about the lengthwise feeding marks, just the radial ones.
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  • navlav8rnavlav8r Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    dcs shooters is correct. When you resize a case, it acts much like squeezing a balloon. When you squeeze the body of the case even a little it is going to push the shoulder forward slightly causing the case to be too long from casehead to shoulder. This partial sizing will work with some rifles but not all. Almost all FL sizing dies are designed to have the shellholder bump up against the bottom of the die. That should return the shoulder to case head length to normal dimensions. You can also size the cases to exactly fit your chamber by turning the die down 1/8 to 1/4 turn from where it is now, size a case and check to see if it will chamber. If it still chambers hard turn the die down another 1/8 to 1/4 turn and try again. Continue until the case chambers normally. This technique will minimize the sizing that the die does on the case. Hope that helps
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    do a search on "partial full length sizing". You are most likely slightly pulling the shoulder fwd a bit.
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  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have several .30/06 rifles and keep the cases seperate for each one. Apparently all the cases have not been fired in the rifle you are trying them in and some chambers are a couple of thousandths longer than others. dcs is right--you must "bump" the bottom of the die with the shell holder if you expect all cases to chamber freely in all rifles.

    As far as stretching shoulders with the expander button in un-lubed case necks: I haven't been able to prove that it can be done. I believe that to be a myth.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ok i turned the die down so that it is tight to the shellholder in the ram. lube isnt an issue as im taking cases individually and lubing the neck, shoulder, and have way down the case. this is with rcbs oil for the roll pad which is very slick. im puutting a little on my finger and spreading it evenly around the case. also taking a q-tip coating it with the oil and running it down inside the throat.

    it is a bit tight as the ram is going up with a case in it as they have already been sized once. but on the way back down there is little resistance.

    what i am doing is going through the cases i have that arelready resized and reprimed and seeing which ones are tight. i am then taking them resizing them again(with the decapping pin removed) and they are still tight. does it make a difference that there is no bullet in the case? im only feeding them one at a time so thats not an issue right now.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    being it is the case that is tight and the bullet is seated properly and not touching the lands. is there any danger of overpressure firing these rounds in this rifle? im just starting my loading for it and right now im using 47gr of varget behind a 150gr bullet.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ok i went through the cases and picked out a few that when empty fit into the rifle without any trouble. the first one i loaded is now very very tight in getting the bolt down. bould the process of just putting a bullet in the case cause the case to swell up and not feed?
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It could, esp if you have the seating die to far down. Over crimping can cause the shoulders to bulge out sideways.
    Raise your seating die 1-2 turns and lock it there. Now reset the seating stem to produce the correct OAL.
    I don't crimp any of my 30-06 ammo, not even for my Garand
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i dont think i am crimping the necks at all. at least it doesnt look like i am.
    you set the seating die in the press the same as you do the resizing die no? the bottem of the die just about touching the shell holder on the ram?
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  • laylandadlaylandad Member Posts: 961 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When you setup the seating die, you take an empty case and place in the shell holder. Then you raise the ram all the way up, screw the seating die down until you feel the die contact the empty case. Turn the die 1/8 to 1/4 turn back and lock in place with lock ring. Now you can set up your seater to proper seating depth and not have the worry about crimping. Hope this helps.
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  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like Layland said, raise a empty case all the way, lower the seating die until it touches, than raise the die back up (I prefer 1/2 to 1 turn up, BTW) and lock it into position.
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  • oneoldsaponeoldsap Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    [:)] I always use a penny on top of my shellholder to set my seating die for no crimp . Turn the die down till it touches the penny add lock it down and you are good to go !![;)]
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if the body of the seating die is too far dowm, it will bulge the shoulder/body junction.

    back the seater off 1 turn and make up the difference by brining the seater stem down and see if that is it.

    or take a case that chambers easily and mic the shoulder/body junction, then mic the same point on a stiff case. If the stiff case has a larger dia, then that is the problem.
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  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by oneoldsap
    [:)] I always use a penny on top of my shellholder to set my seating die for no crimp . Turn the die down till it touches the penny add lock it down and you are good to go !![;)]


    thats a good idea ill have to start doing that it. thanks for the help guys. i adjusted my seater die a bit and loaded probly 50 cases with only slight problems. a few cases that fit when empty got a little bit tight after being loaded. but its not enough to worry about.
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  • bentley47bentley47 Member Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's rare, but I've seen brass swell just at the outside edge of the shoulder when bullet seating force was excessive (neck is work hardened and not deburred and a flat base bullet is seated). Most seating dies don't support the brass there and just a little bit of swelling will cause a stiff bolt. And, it's harder than heck to figure out what happened. Debur the inside of the case necks a little extra if seating flat base bullets.
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  • Duck HeadDuck Head Member Posts: 82 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not to be smart but are you sure you have .308 dia. bullets and not .311? If I understand correctly you can put in an empty sized case but when you seat a bullet you have trouble. You can measure your cases,necks etc. at every stage of the loading process. I almost ordered .311 dia. Remington 180 gr round nose bullets advertised as 30 cal.I found out that Rem. doesn't sell the .308 dia. round nose 180 gr. as a component but the one for 303 British is available and that's what the Co. was selling as 30 cal. I would have found out from the package once I got them though.[:(] Oh, you can turn down you're sizer only to the point where the whole case goes in and you feel a little bump in the handle when you lower it all the way and the case will go in no further no matter how far down you crank it.Did you trim you're cases before or after sizing? I trim afterwards.also, you could have some cases with necks thicker than others. Are they all the same brand or lot? Junk bullets? Some bigger that others? Measure everything, if factory ammo works you should have no problems with reloads.[:D]
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