Annealing tonight-maybee

skyfish

I was going to anneal some of my 25wssm brass tonight. Did a search, sounds simple enough. Heat with torch, hold in fingers, drop in water.

I am doing it to extend brass life, these cases have been fired 3 times. Am I making extra work or will it pay dividends?

These have been tumbled clean but not re-sized. Any advise? Or just forget it? I have 15" of snow outside. Maybe I'm getting cabin fever.

Chad

ChetStafford

I doubt you will be able to hold in your fingers.

Maybe a pair of pliers

PA Shootist

One important consideration is to avoid annealing the whole case, you don't want soft extractor grooves and rims, case heads, etc. One neat way I learned a long time ago was to stand the brass case in a shallow pan with water to protect the case head area from heating. Heat the case neck with propane atmospheric torch, and when necks are hot enough, just tap them with the torch head to fall over into water and quench, annealing only the neck area. I have though never reloaded the super-shorts, though the general principles must still apply. I don't how how they are for neck becoming thicker as brass flows forward, requiring case-neck turning after a while. Only you can determine if the extended case life is worth the effort.

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by csjs1194
I doubt you will be able to hold in your fingers.

Maybe a pair of pliers


Actually holding the case head in your fingers is faster, easier and less likely to soften the case head than when using pliers.
If the case head get's warm enough to be uncomfortable to your fingers, you will automaticly drop it into the water (if your doing it right, your fingers won't ever feel any heat).
I find a darkened room and dropping them when you see the slighest change of color works well (yes Virginia, you can over soften the neck)

JustC

The second from thr right is done correctly. Notice the color change goes only slightly past the shoulder.

coledigger4

How often should one do each cartridge or is it a one-time thing?

zimmden

I anneal every piece of brass for reloading with an annealling tip on propane torch. I bought one and made several from 1/4 copper tubing for 1/3 the cost. I have not had a split neck case in 5 years. Contact me at zimmersden@triton.net for more info. One publication says to anneal again after 10 firings. If you only neck size brass for same rifle you should expect 50 or more loadings.

mrbruce

Some folks will anneal them every time they are fired, I do mine every 5th time fired but they are worked very little by custom dies that fit to a T....

sandwarrior

Here's a question I hope is still on topic with this. I haven't done it personally, but what happens when you anneal too far down? How do you correct that? Resize a couple times?

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
Here's a question I hope is still on topic with this. I haven't done it personally, but what happens when you anneal too far down? How do you correct that? Resize a couple times?

A) you will know it when you can close the mouth with your fingers or you can pull the bullet out with your fingers or in a tight chambered rifle, pull the bullet when you try to remove a loaded round (don't ask how I know this)
running them through the sizer will work, but it's a little slow, now running say a 30cal case, into a 7mm die fitted with a .303Brit expander ball will "stiffen" them back up in just a pass or 2.

skyfish

Okay haven't got to it yet, fixing stuff(from digging out) and digging out kept me busy. Where do you have the case in the flame, at the tip of the small really blue part or at the last of visible flame. Sounds like it takes a lot more time to describe than actually accomplish.

sandwarrior

At the tip of the small blue flame.

Tailgunner,

Thanks.

skyfish

Did my first cases tonight, my first batch I held in for 4-5 seconds, then dropped in bucket, don't show enough color change in my opinion. From the previous picture and some new brass I've purchased.

Second batch I held until base became rather hot and had to drop in water, took about 8-9 seconds, looks like middle picture. I think I'm almost there.

Just did 6 cases each batch until I get the hang of this.

ksred

Something I have found to work really well is using a 3/8" cordless drill. I open the chuck all the way, drop the case in and spin it in the flame. You can dump the case out without touching it.

zimmden

The annealing tip I mentioned in my previous post is a 1/4 inch copper tube bent into a 1 1/2 inch circle that attaches to a propane torch tip. 8 holes are drilled in tubing so the 8 flames are directed toward the center. 40 cases are stood up in a shallow tray with 1/2 inch of water. 10 seconds of heat by lowering the tip down to the shoulder then knocking them over produces perfect annealing.

sandwarrior

A little addendum here specific to 25 WSSM (WSSM's probably as well). You will need to hold them in pliers and watch for color change. Holding them in your fingers won't work. That case is too short. By the time it gets too hot at your fingers there is very little change at the neck. This using a mechanics propane torch. I didn't try it using acetylene or mapp gas which would heat the neck faster(?).

5mmgunguy

Anyone heard of a light BC1000 (not sure I have the name right) annealing machine? Has anyone tried one? How did it work?

skyfish

Thanks Sandwarrior, I thought that might be the case(no pun intended).

Zimmden, that annealing tip sounds slick. Did you make it or buy it. How many holes on the inside.

Oldest boy wrestling the next 3 nights, 2 Christmas this weekend, then 2nd season muzzle loader. I'll get back to this after the holidays Thanks for the help. I'll post some pics when I do.

bentley47

Hi. I'm new to the forum, but not to reloading. See the link for annealing info and Ken Light's machine.
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

bpost

From the not so scientific experiment I have done here is what I have found from doing case NECK annealing.
(1) cases last a lot longer, no neck splits
(2) Bullet tension is consistent, helping accuracy.
(3) it is very simple to do, 6MM BR to .375 H&H.


This is MY method.
I clamp a propane torch into the bench vice in my reloading room. (you do have a vice, right?) The flame is adjusted so it is quite hot but has a narrow center spike of hottest flame. The room light is very dim, one bulb is lit behind me but not shining directly on the flame point, my body has it in a shadow.

I grab each case by the base with a pair of pliers and put it into the flame, rolling it from side to side with a twisting motion of my wrist. The INSTANT I see a dim glow from the case mouth I drop it into a coffee can full of water. It works perfect.

As soon as your jitters are over, you get comfortable with doing it you can anneal hundreds of cases per hour. I had several thousand 30-06 cases that needed annealing. I was able to get them done without ruining a single case by overheating the base.

The key is to get the neck hot, fast, and drop the case into the water before heat can have any effect on the body or head.

sandwarrior

quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
From the not so scientific experiment I have done here is what I have found from doing case NECK annealing.
(1) cases last a lot longer, no neck splits
(2) Bullet tension is consistent, helping accuracy.
(3) it is very simple to do, 6MM BR to .375 H&H.


This is MY method.
I clamp a propane torch into the bench vice in my reloading room. (you do have a vice, right?) The flame is adjusted so it is quite hot but has a narrow center spike of hottest flame. The room light is very dim, one bulb is lit behind me but not shining directly on the flame point, my body has it in a shadow.

I grab each case by the base with a pair of pliers and put it into the flame, rolling it from side to side with a twisting motion of my wrist. The INSTANT I see a dim glow from the case mouth I drop it into a coffee can full of water. It works perfect.

As soon as your jitters are over, you get comfortable with doing it you can anneal hundreds of cases per hour. I had several thousand 30-06 cases that needed annealing. I was able to get them done without ruining a single case by overheating the base.

The key is to get the neck hot, fast, and drop the case into the water before heat can have any effect on the body or head.



BPost,

Thanks for the update. I found out a little late with some of my 25WSSM cases that you don't wait to put them in water. The bases got soft and I blew out a total of 5 primers. Everything else was good to go.

I read in another thread or forum, someone saying you shouldn't put them in water. They didn't know why but thought it might be a bad thing. Well, I've come to the conclusion that I will stick with what I know about metalurgy from my aviation training and that is to stick them in water. It softens the necks just fine and keeps the heat from creeping to the bases.

bentley47

I think the only issue with water is getting them dry afterwards. Many folks clean brass with water/vinegar/soap/lemon juice mixtures. They just have to go thru a drying process before further processing. I have used a damp towel laid out in a pan. Drop the hot brass on the damp towel and you don't have as much drying time to deal with.

skyfish

Learned a few things. It took a few cases to get through the jitters of over-softening. Seem to size better in die. Also bought the headgage measuring kit from Hornady. On my 25 WSSM if i don't make contact with my die the shoulder doesn't get touched. As tight as I can get the shell holder with the die it will only push the shoulder back .002.

That will explane some of the hard chambering. That is with a RCBS shell holder and die, if I use my Hrndy shellholder(its taller) I can't push the shoulder down at all with the RCBS die.

I also tried Zimmden's tip and seems to work real good. I will post pics, just been very busy. Centerfire doe started Monday, that's my favorite season. Won't have much time until Feb.

bpost

quote:Originally posted by skyfish
Learned a few things. It took a few cases to get through the jitters of over-softening. Seem to size better in die. Also bought the headgage measuring kit from Hornady. On my 25 WSSM if i don't make contact with my die the shoulder doesn't get touched. As tight as I can get the shell holder with the die it will only push the shoulder back .002.

That will explane some of the hard chambering. That is with a RCBS shell holder and die, if I use my Hrndy shellholder(its taller) I can't push the shoulder down at all with the RCBS die.

I also tried Zimmden's tip and seems to work real good. I will post pics, just been very busy. Centerfire doe started Monday, that's my favorite season. Won't have much time until Feb.


Bumping the shoulder back .002 should be fine if you have properly annealed brass. Of course if the brass is work hardened the spring back is unpredictable so some will chamber fine, others will not.

I use neck sizing ONLY for three firings, the shoulder never gets touched on my two 6mm BR guns, one has a .264 neck, the other a .268. I will then run each through the F/L sizer die to set the shoulder back the .002 you indicate.