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Help me you tough guy reloaders.

poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
edited March 2010 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
Just started reloading rifle with a hopeful coyote round. I am trying to reload .270 win with a 90 grain Sierra Varmiter hollow point followed with I think 48 grains of Hodgdon H335 and a CCI large rifle primers both with crimped and non crimped bullets. Went thru all the cleaning and case care the book said to do. My problem is when I pull the trigger there is a delay before the gun goes boom. Sometimes almost a whole second. What the hell am I doing. Oh ya, with the recipie of the powder I am using, my case is only about half full of powder. Could that be the problem and if it is why would they (lee recipe book) give me a recipie like that use. Thanks for any help.
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Comments

  • coledigger4coledigger4 Member Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Several years back I ran into this with a 300 Mag. Same pause that you are talking about. We were loading 200 grain Trophy Bonded bullets. It turned out that the bullets weren't getting seated deep enough. The overall length was good but the ogive was throwing us off. The guy that diagnosed it took a couple of rounds that we had loaded and seated the bullet in some. Problem solved. He told us to start a bullet in an empty case and use the bolt to seat it the rest of the way in the chamber. Then remove the cartridge, measure it, and turn the seating die in to finish. I can't remember how far but is was measured in 1000's. The guy is now deceased or I would ask him and the dummy round is now long gone.
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  • 264fan264fan Member Posts: 81 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Go to a slower powder that will fill more of the case, velocities will be more uniform,and function more reliable. I have had better luck with IMR type powder in the larger cases.
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  • poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will try to do that seating trick. I read about that somewhere also, thanks Vquote:Originally posted by coledigger4
    Several years back I ran into this with a 300 Mag. Same pause that you are talking about. We were loading 200 grain Trophy Bonded bullets. It turned out that the bullets weren't getting seated deep enough. The overall length was good but the ogive was throwing us off. The guy that diagnosed it took a couple of rounds that we had loaded and seated the bullet in some. Problem solved. He told us to start a bullet in an empty case and use the bolt to seat it the rest of the way in the chamber. Then remove the cartridge, measure it, and turn the seating die in to finish. I can't remember how far but is was measured in 1000's. The guy is now deceased or I would ask him and the dummy round is now long gone.
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  • poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya, I have already bought some IMR4850 which alsmost fills my case. Let you know if it works. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by 264fan
    This is my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Go to a slower powder that will fill more of the case, velocities will be more uniform,and function more reliable. I have had better luck with IMR type powder in the larger cases.
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    poseynv4,

    No offense to the other poster but seating this bullet deeper is required but not for the reason stated. You need to get approximately one caliber length of the bullet into the case neck. That means that your bullet should have about 0.270" of the shank in the case neck. This is approximate not an exact measurement. Hodgdon suggests 3.200" for an OAL. Given this, you will not be anywhere close to lands. The crimp is questionable and I suggest using more neck tension instead.

    This is the data from the Hodgdon website:

    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H4350 .277" 3.200" 58.0 3401 43,700 CUP 62.0C 3603 49,800 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H414 .277" 3.200" 55.0 3361 42,200 CUP 59.0 3585 50,700 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4350 .277" 3.200" 56.0 3251 41,900 CUP 60.3 3516 50,800 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Winchester 760 .277" 3.200" 55.0 3361 42,200 CUP 59.0 3585 50,700 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4007 SSC .277" 3.200" 53.0 3293 54,600 PSI 57.5 3508 63,300 PSI
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H380 .277" 3.200" 53.0 3344 45,600 CUP 56.3 3462 50,900 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon Varget .277" 3.200" 51.0 3409 46,000 CUP 55.0 3596 51,400 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4320 .277" 3.200" 48.5 3220 46,800 CUP 52.7 3425 51,500 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4064 .277" 3.200" 49.6 3295 44,400 CUP 54.0 3538 50,500 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .277" 3.200" 49.0 3328 45,400 CUP 52.0 3475 50,100 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4895 .277" 3.200" 49.0 3268 43,700 CUP 53.3 3507 50,300 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H335 .277" 3.200" 46.0 3313 46,100 CUP 49.0 3459 50,900 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H4895 .277" 3.200" 50.0 3482 48,100 CUP 53.0 3595 50,400 CUP
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .277" 3.200" 45.6 3380 57,900 PSI 48.0 3476 61,900 PSI
    90 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 3031 .277" 3.200" 46.0 3299 45,000 CUP 50.2 3487 50,600 CUP

    I have used and can suggest the IMR-4350 load for this bullet.

    There is s lot more to this problem but in short, the primer is flashing across the top of the powder, which being a Ball powder is harder to ignite, causing the delay. Please put that Lee manual up on your shelf and get a real reloading manual such as Sierra, Hodgdon, Accurate Arms, etc. Yes, I know, I see the similar load in the Hodgdon data...

    Best.
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  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    Thats happen a few times when the primers were not 100% seated....
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  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,438 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    STOP! Hang-fires are EXTREMELY dangerous! They can result in near-detonation events that grenade the rifle. Discontinue that load and pull any remaining rounds IMMEDIATELY.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would not be comfortable with a hang-fire load.

    Do as stated and switch to a slower, extruded grain powder, that more adequately fills the case.
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  • excavmanexcavman Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something sounds fishy, you should have a lot more than half a case of powder with 48 grains in a 270 case. Check your scale and pull those bullets and recheck your load. I like 4064 in the 270 with light (90-100) bullets.
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  • poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks to all. Great information. I will not shoot these rounds anymore. I am going to a slower powder and fill the case more. That was 46 grains H335 not 48. I did seat the bullet at 3.200 AOL but I don't know how deep in the case that made it. I will measure them. I already bought some IMR 4850 powder and will try that. This is obviously a safety problem and I will trash the rounds I have already made. Thanks again to all.
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  • oneoldsaponeoldsap Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since you are just starting to reload rifle cartridges you need to readjust your head a little . I won't use a powder that will not fill the case at least 75% full . This insures proper ignition . Usually this will put you into the slower burning powders . You should also use Mag. primers with ball powders , this is especially true in cold weather . You dodged a bullet this time . You need to do some more reading and as suggested , get some real manuals . I always cross reference my loads to insure I haven't encountered a typo. BE SAFE! [;)]
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  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,438 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, the Lee manual is just a re-print of the other manuals. They do not lab testing of their own; it's a compilation of data arranged according to Lee's system. Barring a typo, it's as valid as the data they copied.

    That said, typos DO happen (witness our original poster!) So, the prudent reloader will crosscheck at least two and preferably three manuals: the bullet maker as primary, the powder maker as secondary and an independent as surety. Lyman is the best third-party source because they use all powders and bullets, DO perform actual lab tests, and have no bullet/powder products to pimp.

    On the mag primer issue: some labs (Speer is one) specify magnum primers with ANY spherical powder, no matter what cartridge or condition. That's probably overkill. I follow the established hints for magnum primers: only in cases of 60+ grains capacity, or with very heavily deterred powders, or for use at below freezing temps. Otherwise, I use standard strength primers.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
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  • poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great stuff y'all. I will keep all this in mind. Didn't think it was such a big deal. Whoops. quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    Well, the Lee manual is just a re-print of the other manuals. They do not lab testing of their own; it's a compilation of data arranged according to Lee's system. Barring a typo, it's as valid as the data they copied.

    That said, typos DO happen (witness our original poster!) So, the prudent reloader will crosscheck at least two and preferably three manuals: the bullet maker as primary, the powder maker as secondary and an independent as surety. Lyman is the best third-party source because they use all powders and bullets, DO perform actual lab tests, and have no bullet/powder products to pimp.

    On the mag primer issue: some labs (Speer is one) specify magnum primers with ANY spherical powder, no matter what cartridge or condition. That's probably overkill. I follow the established hints for magnum primers: only in cases of 60+ grains capacity, or with very heavily deterred powders, or for use at below freezing temps. Otherwise, I use standard strength primers.
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  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    poseynv4,

    I didn't know if you knew it or not but CCI supposedly had a recall on some lots of primers a while back. Not firing or delayed firing.

    I bought 5k Large rifle shortly before the "massive shortage" of primers. Sometime a couple years ago I heard about a CCI primer recall. Since I didn't have a problem with the first couple thousand I didn't worry about it.

    However, out of this 1k box of primers I bought I've gotten to a tray (100) that several, in several different calibers/rifles has done exactly what you describe. I pull the trigger. Think I have a dud. Then it goes bang. Unpleasant experience when you raise up and aren't ready for the recoil.

    I'm just saying this could be your problem. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. Try the extruded powder first. My loads were all extruded powder.
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  • excavmanexcavman Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Probably not related to the current problem but food for thought. Some 40 years ago I loaded a box of 45lc for a friend, the 185 hp .451 diam. bullets didn't seat well, had to role crimp just to keep them from falling out. He shot half the box right away, no problems. A year later he decided to finish them up and had several hang fires. The only thing I could figure was moisture damaged the powder or primer
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  • oneoldsaponeoldsap Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those .45LC bullets should have been sized .452 !
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  • excavmanexcavman Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    40 years ago the nominal size for 45lc was .454, 45 auto was .452 or in rare cases .451. The expander with the die set measured .454 which left .002 slack when using 45 auto bullets in a 45lc case. I think that most 45lc guns are .452 now.
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  • poseynv4poseynv4 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, I will try the new powder first and if still does it I will change primers. Lots of trial and error in this reloading stuff. Thanks again.quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    poseynv4,

    I didn't know if you knew it or not but CCI supposedly had a recall on some lots of primers a while back. Not firing or delayed firing.

    I bought 5k Large rifle shortly before the "massive shortage" of primers. Sometime a couple years ago I heard about a CCI primer recall. Since I didn't have a problem with the first couple thousand I didn't worry about it.

    However, out of this 1k box of primers I bought I've gotten to a tray (100) that several, in several different calibers/rifles has done exactly what you describe. I pull the trigger. Think I have a dud. Then it goes bang. Unpleasant experience when you raise up and aren't ready for the recoil.

    I'm just saying this could be your problem. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. Try the extruded powder first. My loads were all extruded powder.
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