Weird scope mounts!!

poseynv4

I just bought a Winchester model 70 lightweight from an ole friend of mine and I noticed that the scope does not have any adjustment knobs or caps on it. Upon further inspection I noticed that the adjustments for the scope are on the mounts themselves, one for elevation and one for azimuth. One of my friends said they are pretty old and may be worth something. Obviously the scope goes with the mounts cause how else can you adjust it. Anybody know anything about this setup?? I might sell them to somebody that really wants or needs them if I can put an upgraded scope on this rifle.

carbine100

Look like this??

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159593119

edit: O.K. Is this closer?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158903061

PA Shootist

One example of a scope and mount system in the 50's thru the 70's was the Bausch & Lomb scope and mounts. The scopes were fixed, and as you described all adjustments for windage and elevation were made in the mounts. It was a rugged and reliable mounting system; the scope could be removed and replaced and return to a useable zero. B&L even advertised that one could purchase mounts for different rifles and move a scope from one rifle to another, and zero would be maintained on each rifle. The mounts utilized a machinist's v-block principle. The scopes were of excellent optical quality, among the very best in their time, and not bad even by today's advanced standards. The very best of Old World German optical craftmanship and technology in lens design and manufacture took roots in Rochester, NY at Bausch & Lomb. These scopes and mounts were also among the most expensive of the time. Many of the mounts were manufactured for B&L by Kuharsky Bros. in Erie, PA.

I still have a couple rifles with B&L mounts and scopes, and use them after forty-plus years. They have served me well through all the years.

There were of course some others with external adjustments in hunting scopes. Internal adjustments were in those days somewhat more fragile, and less repeatable, than today. And precise external adjustments were then, and are still, common in the best target scopes.

jaegermister

You are so right. Always centered, internal adjustment reticle was and is a marketing attraction. Once you understand how this is accomplished internal to the scope you begin to understand why external adjustment is so much better. Ever notice how precise the cross wires appear on the target surface of a external adjustment scope? But in the quest for a lighter more streamlined mount we have all opted for internal adjustment. The vertical adjustment has always been a awkward thing to accomplish with external set up.

poseynv4

That's a negative. These are adjusting knobs are closer to the reciever. I will try to send a picture. quote:Originally posted by carbine100
Look like this??

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159593119

dcs shooters

It's probably a Bausch&Lomb Baltur. There a couple on the auction side.

poseynv4

Right you are. It is a Bausch & Lomb mount with what looks like the Baltur scope. Thanks for the insight. Nice to know what I have. [img][/img][img][/img]quote:Originally posted by PA Shootist
One example of a scope and mount system in the 50's thru the 70's was the Bausch & Lomb scope and mounts. The scopes were fixed, and as you described all adjustments for windage and elevation were made in the mounts. It was a rugged and reliable mounting system; the scope could be removed and replaced and return to a useable zero. B&L even advertised that one could purchase mounts for different rifles and move a scope from one rifle to another, and zero would be maintained on each rifle. The mounts utilized a machinist's v-block principle. The scopes were of excellent optical quality, among the very best in their time, and not bad even by today's advanced standards. The very best of Old World German optical craftmanship and technology in lens design and manufacture took roots in Rochester, NY at Bausch & Lomb. These scopes and mounts were also among the most expensive of the time. Many of the mounts were manufactured for B&L by Kuharsky Bros. in Erie, PA.

I still have a couple rifles with B&L mounts and scopes, and use them after forty-plus years. They have served me well through all the years.

There were of course some others with external adjustments in hunting scopes. Internal adjustments were in those days somewhat more fragile, and less repeatable, than today. And precise external adjustments were then, and are still, common in the best target scopes.

best defense

That's the way all scopes used to be. You have a genuine antique.

PA Shootist

While the Bausch & Lomb external-adjustment scope mounts are discontinued, they aren't really antique, in my opinion. I suspect they were far more expensive to manufacture than fixed mount systems, and are indeed somewhat more difficult to adjust than the internal setups, and that may account for their demise. They may in many ways be superior, as far as ruggedness and repeatability of zero when mounted and dismounted, for example to use iron sights. And when I bought my first B&L Balvar 8A and B&L mounts in the late sixties, I was a young man. They surely couldn't be considered "antique"!