In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
First results with Savage 12
jonk
Member Posts: 10,121
Got to shoot the handloads in the Savage 12 BVSS 223 1:9 for the first time this weekend.
First up were 69 gr Sierra HPBT Matchkings and Hornady 50 gr vmax.
I started at starting loads and worked up .5gr at a time in groups of 5 until I saw pressure signs- flat primers, primer pockets just starting to dimple and flow into the firing pin channel (and called that a bit over max, not to be repeated.)
With the V-max, 26 gr of IMR 4895 was the ticket. With the Sierra, 23.5 gr of BLC2 was tops.
Both shot a great group. The best with the V-max was .6", the best with the Sierra was .7" at 100 yards. Close enough to say about the same.
This with just lake city brass. [:)]
I have 2 more bullets to try- a sierra 63 gr soft point and a hornady 55 gr v-max. Just what I happened to order for starts. My goal is to find an honest .5" or less repeatable load- i.e. 1/2 MOA. Either of the above could, given judicious handloading and perhaps better cases, achieve this, but just weighing in.
Such an improvement over the Ultramax that I started with (just had some on hand) 2 weeks ago, with the 55 gr BT bullet. My WORST handload so far was 2.1", about on par with the ultramax.
Man, that's a fine shooting gun. FWIW- Win LR primers, Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 BCD scope.
First up were 69 gr Sierra HPBT Matchkings and Hornady 50 gr vmax.
I started at starting loads and worked up .5gr at a time in groups of 5 until I saw pressure signs- flat primers, primer pockets just starting to dimple and flow into the firing pin channel (and called that a bit over max, not to be repeated.)
With the V-max, 26 gr of IMR 4895 was the ticket. With the Sierra, 23.5 gr of BLC2 was tops.
Both shot a great group. The best with the V-max was .6", the best with the Sierra was .7" at 100 yards. Close enough to say about the same.
This with just lake city brass. [:)]
I have 2 more bullets to try- a sierra 63 gr soft point and a hornady 55 gr v-max. Just what I happened to order for starts. My goal is to find an honest .5" or less repeatable load- i.e. 1/2 MOA. Either of the above could, given judicious handloading and perhaps better cases, achieve this, but just weighing in.
Such an improvement over the Ultramax that I started with (just had some on hand) 2 weeks ago, with the 55 gr BT bullet. My WORST handload so far was 2.1", about on par with the ultramax.
Man, that's a fine shooting gun. FWIW- Win LR primers, Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 BCD scope.
Comments
I got to shoot the Savage 112-J (22-250) that I sold to a good friend late last year. That old girl still shoots beautifully.
Mine (12 FV in .223) got a new lease on life when I discovered it stabilizes SMK 77 gr. and Nosler CC 77 Gr. and Hornady 75 gr. HPBT's. all three go in front of 25 gr. of RE-15. Velocity is just under 3k. However, mine has some erosion now. So I would assume you would start with about 23.5 gr. and work up.
I never knew the 75 gr. bullets would stabilize in my rifle. In the past I know I tried something about that weight but it didn't stabilize. I went on thinking I couldn't get the longer bullets like that to stabilize. The Hornady 80 gr. A-max's won't. Anyhow, someone pointed out the 75 gr. HPBT's would stabilize and the 75 gr. A-max's won't in 1-9" So I gave it another shot. I was very happy I did.
Your discussion goes a long way towards proving what I've been saying repeatedly here on the forums.
It is NOT the weight of the bullet that determines the twist rate but the LENGTH and the OGIVE of that bullet. The reverse wording is true also as you point out.
The bullets you found to work in your rifle are made with a tangent ogive which creates a slightly shorter bullet as opposed to using a secant ogive. This is also the case in extreme instances when a VLD-style bullet is loaded. They are much longer (relatively) and will not stabilize in some of the standard twist rates.
As with all discussions of this type, there are exceptions. I have written several time about a cartridge I use to shoot the .22 caliber 75 gr. AMAX in a 1:10" twist barrel. It proves to be the most accurate combination in that barrel and it fully stabilized.
Best.
sandwarrior,
Your discussion goes a long way towards proving what I've been saying repeatedly here on the forums.
It is NOT the weight of the bullet that determines the twist rate but the LENGTH and the OGIVE of that bullet. The reverse wording is true also as you point out.
The bullets you found to work in your rifle are made with a tangent ogive which creates a slightly shorter bullet as opposed to using a secant ogive. This is also the case in extreme instances when a VLD-style bullet is loaded. They are much longer (relatively) and will not stabilize in some of the standard twist rates.
As with all discussions of this type, there are exceptions. I have written several time about a cartridge I use to shoot the .22 caliber 75 gr. AMAX in a 1:10" twist barrel. It proves to be the most accurate combination in that barrel and it fully stabilized.
Best.
nononsense,
I for one, take your writings on that as quite correct. Many times have I taken the rough twist calculator and at least gotten a general idea of what I need for speed or twist before a go with a bullet or barrel.
One such instance that befuddled me on that though was the difference between the new Sierra 6mm 95 gr. SMK HPBT, and the Berger 95 gr. VLD. I could not get the Sierra to stabilize from a 1-10" twist. (I know it says it needs 1-9" right on the box) But I could get the Berger 95 VLD's to stabilize. The Bergers were longer?? There are obviously more factors at work on that. But the ones I could see immediately were that the Sierra had a very long tangent ogive. It also had lead all the way up to the tip, where the Berger didn't. The only thing I can think of that this directly correlated to was the Sierra had more weight spread along it's length, and probably caused the cg to move forward of that of the Berger.
Both of these bullets I've found work SWEEET! in a 6mm Rem 700 with the 1-9" twist. I wish my 6mm Rem was one of those. There's a gunwriter bashing tale for another time though.
Anyhow, it took some chiding from some of my shooting buddies part but I finally caved and got the longer bullets. Nosler 77 CC's, Hornady 75 HPBT's and Sierra 77 HPBT's. I just ran through some seconds from Hornady, 75 HPBT's, that seem to be a little skinnier in the nose. They shot a nice round 6" group. I'll have to run a bunch through my AR to see if it's twist or really bad bullets. Because none of them keyholed.
-good luck,jonk, something to try. And thanks again nn for some sage advice.