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Cast bullets

I know this will be an opinion question, but here goes. What is the best hard stick bullet lube on the market right now? I'm looking to upgrade my cast bullet operation. I want to get a Lyman 4500 Sizer/Lubricator with a heater. I've been using a Lyman 450 (old orange) for many years now. I want to be able to ship cast bullets without all the mess.

Comments

  • k_townmank_townman Member Posts: 3,588
    edited November -1
    does anyone cast their own? i'm now doing 7mm, 30cal, 357, 458, and 2 styles of 45 acp. do you mix linotype with your lead? i've been using wheel weights and spent bullets from an indoor range collector. i just got a real good deal on 1oo# of lino, wondered if anyone had set set mix?

    gun control is not about guns, it is about CONTROL!
  • brier-49brier-49 Member Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good question for castboolits .com. I just make for my own use so I don't use a hard lube.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The hard lube May lead in some guns . Soft lube works much better In MY opinion.
  • k_townmank_townman Member Posts: 3,588
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    The hard lube May lead in some guns . Soft lube works much better In MY opinion.

    Soft lube makes an awful sticky mess when you ship bullets across the country. How could hard lube cause leading, when it's not made of lead?
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by k_townman
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    The hard lube May lead in some guns . Soft lube works much better In MY opinion.

    Soft lube makes an awful sticky mess when you ship bullets across the country. How could hard lube cause leading, when it's not made of lead?

    Because it does not protect the bore from the bullet metal. It is the bullet causing the leading, not the lube. The job of the lube is to coat the bore giving a thin surface of lube on the steel barrel for the lead bullet to ride on. Much as motor oil does in your car engine, bullet lube protects metal.

    If you are shipping small quantities stacking them in a cigar box, on end, separated by stiff paper works well.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello I agree with the fact that soft lube can be messy. What I was trying to say was sometimes the results don't stay the same when changing to a hard lube. There are many causes of leading One is from hot gasses vaporizing the very back of the bullet .and depositing/plating this lead on the barrel on the way down the bore . Another way is the bullet not beingSealed to the bore on the way down the bore and gasses causing "Blow By/ gas cutting" and the third way is from just the friction /abrasion of the lead against the bore . I have found the Soft lube Cuts down on this abrasion better then the Hard lube It SEALS the bore Much better then the hard lube with both types of lube on a properly sized bullet to the bore size and it is also my belief it coats the bore to help prevent the vaporized lead from the bullet base plating the bore. YMMV I just have never found ANY hard lube that works as well as a number of different brands of soft lube. Most all my lead bullets have been 45ACP more then 250,000 of them and I have tested many kinds I found I was much better off buying unlubed bullets and lubing them myself then using anyone's Hard lubed bullets. In a match we shoot 180 rounds with no chance to clean the bore . Only soft lubed bullets would make this amount without some leading at the chamber barrel transition. Any leading caused group sizes to enlarge.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    As much as I agree with most of what Perry shooter says, I disagree with one thing- lead at the base of the bullet does not vaporize. The time the bullet is subjected to the powder burn is insufficient to heat this to melting point, much less vaporization point. I shoot some rounds with dacron (polyester) wadding as a case filler; it puffs out without issue- I mean that it doesn't melt even though it is over the powder itself. Think of exposed lead base bullets in military FMJ applications. No issue with leading.

    Splitting hairs mind you, but what I think DOES happen is the lead bullet, even if well fit and sealed to the bore, can't take the pressure that a jacketed bullet does at the rear edge. This leads to both blow by (as Perry shooter mentioned) and to some erosion of the base itself but merely from pressure, not from melting.

    I saw a post where a guy stuffed flash paper into the case and fired it off to see if it would ignite. This stuff burns quite easily and one would think that not only would it go off, but combust completely.

    Zero, nada. Couldn't get it to go off.

    A bullet gets hot in the barrel but from friction, not from heat transfer from the burning powder.

    Now that's neither here nor there regarding lube. I quit buying commercial cast bullets as the hard lube leaded, especially in pistols. In higher velocity/pressure rifle applications, it worked a bit better. To understand why, you must consider how lube is applied to the bore. As I understand it, it is via 3 processes.

    1. Lube right at the surface of the lube groove is mechanically smeared against the barrel by simply passing through. This happens with hard or soft lube.

    2. Centrifugal force of the rotating bullet lifts lube off the base of the groove and helps to further pack it against the barrel. This is less likely to happen with low velocity rounds using stiff hard lube than with soft. Proof? Dig a bullet out of the backstop fired with hard vs. soft lube. The hard lube is generally intact and on the bullet, even after flying down range. The soft lubed bullet is usually bare; all the lube that wasn't slung off in the bore flies off shortly after exiting the muzzle due to centrifugal force.

    3. The follow up shot can ride down the remnants of the lube left by the previous bullet if any. The more deposited by steps 1 and 2 above, generally the better.

    All in all, soft lube just works better.

    Now there are applications- particularly for shooting in the hot summer- when I use lube A vs. lube B in the winter (and really either in the spring/fall). My winter lube is regular 50/50 alox/beeswax. In the summer though- particularly in temperatures over 100 degrees- I find this melts right off while the bullets are sitting in the box. So I switch to Felix lube- a homemade concoction that still has a beeswax base, but since I make this one myself, I can add a bit of paraffin to it to stiffin it.

    Really it would work great in winter too, I just got a bunch of 50/50 for free and have been slowly using it up. When gone I'll probably just use Felix.
  • k_townmank_townman Member Posts: 3,588
    edited November -1
    You guys have saved me from spending needlessly. I'll keep my Lyman 450 and continue to use the soft lubes. Thanks.
  • 264fan264fan Member Posts: 81 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You might try White Lable Lube BAC it is kind of a compromise between hard and soft lube. Only problem i had was my casting area is pretty cold in the winter and had to use the heater to get it to flow. It is slightly tacky but not sticky like 50/50.
  • codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    I have a 450 as well. Before I made a warming base I just used a 100 watt bulb on an office lamp (flexible neck) and let it run for 20 minutes before use. I use home made soft"er" lube and a little heat helps reduce the work a bit.
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