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6.5x 55 Swedish Mauser
grandman
Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
Does any body load for the Swedish Mauser?
Comments
I use Sierra 140gr GK and 42.5gr of RL22 in my Swede M38. I started low and worked up.
I had lots of questions at first because of the differences between the Speer and Sierra manuals (for military rifles).
Are you loading for a military of commercial action?
Speers loads go from 38 to 40 gr of RL22, tested in a universal receiver. Sierra goes from 37.7 to 45.7 and was tested in a Swede M96. Big difference there!
Some are adamant that the Swede action is not strong enough to use full power loads, some say it is. I say....I don't know but I'm not going to push the envelope on it. Better safe than sorry.
Got a little long winded....sorry.
Edited for spelling.
RL22 or H4831sc. I run the Ackley Improved version, but very close to the same thing. I also use the 140gr pills and Lapua brass (the best). The Swede is a superb cartridge with mild recoil and lots of on-target energy at distances most aren't comfortable shooting game.
What are YOUR thoughts on the strength of the M96 action?
As I said before, by the Sierra manual loads I am not pushing it, but according to Speer I am already 2.5gr over max.
grandman, to me, the Swede is a hoot to shoot. I shot up 40 factory rounds last Saturday and didn't feel a thing![:D]
quote:Originally posted by JustC
RL22 or H4831sc. I run the Ackley Improved version, but very close to the same thing. I also use the 140gr pills and Lapua brass (the best). The Swede is a superb cartridge with mild recoil and lots of on-target energy at distances most aren't comfortable shooting game.
What are YOUR thoughts on the strength of the M96 action?
As I said before, by the Sierra manual loads I am not pushing it, but according to Speer I am already 2.5gr over max.
grandman, to me, the Swede is a hoot to shoot. I shot up 40 factory rounds last Saturday and didn't feel a thing![:D]
sorry can't offer any real world data on the M96 action. I have heard about the pressure tolerances being lower than other actions. Try asking nononsense, he would know right answer.
guntech59, I am using 140 grain Accu-Bonds in a Swedish M96. I like the gun can`t beat the low recoil and the long distance that you get from the round. This is the first batch that I have loaded and have not had time yet to test them( too much rain). I will let you know how things turn out after I test them. Thanks
You will certainly get better velocity with that 29" barrel than I do with mine.
I bought 500 140gr Speer Hotcors from a friend of mine for $50. I have shot a few of them, using the same recipe. The flatbases seem to be a little more accurate than the Sierras I had first.
I don't shoot it off the bench much but, when I do it stays under 3" at 100. Not too shabby for 50 year old eyes and a 105 year old rifle.
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
quote:Originally posted by JustC
RL22 or H4831sc. I run the Ackley Improved version, but very close to the same thing. I also use the 140gr pills and Lapua brass (the best). The Swede is a superb cartridge with mild recoil and lots of on-target energy at distances most aren't comfortable shooting game.
What are YOUR thoughts on the strength of the M96 action?
As I said before, by the Sierra manual loads I am not pushing it, but according to Speer I am already 2.5gr over max.
grandman, to me, the Swede is a hoot to shoot. I shot up 40 factory rounds last Saturday and didn't feel a thing![:D]
sorry can't offer any real world data on the M96 action. I have heard about the pressure tolerances being lower than other actions. Try asking nononsense, he would know right answer.
In case anyone else wants to know nononsense's opinion of the strength of the Swede M96 action, here's a post from '06 on that very subject:
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 12:15:36 PM
Bill,
"How much can the M96 action take?"
It will take all of the normal pressure that average cartridges will impart to the action and bolt, right up to the point where it fails catastrophically. Where is that point? Unknown, until you reach it and most of us prefer not to get there! But any action can suffer bolt lug failure, lug set back, bolt stretching, etc. Your instructors are trying to impart some sensibility to a subject that could get them and you into trouble if they didn't urge caution. It is the rapacious desire to sue others that causes us to temper our real opinions of the performance of the steel and the actions created for the Swedes. There are some facts that can entered into for discussion:
Most actions today rely on the two lug system and do so quite well without failure. The Swede is no different.
No average actions today use the third lug that Paul Mauser specified for safety. The exceptions are the Mauser clones and custom Mauser actions.
Most actions today use an action body very nearly the same diameter as the Swede without failure.
Most actions today have no better gas handling than the Swedes did over 100 years ago.
The actions that we deal with today fall into that large middle ground group of ones built to function for a particular price but without advancing to the ultimate degrees of improvements with regard to safety and function. The last catastrophic failure I saw was the Tikka and that was the fault of the barrel steel not the action. Catastrophic failures are usually the result of the person doing the reloading and shooting not the manufacturer.
There is very little improvement to be gained over using standard cartridges in the Swede unless you want to built a specialized rifle for a specialized use such as 1,000 yard target shooting. The 6.5x55 is a superb cartridge as is the 7x57, .257 Roberts, .250 Savage and any of the large number of cartridges that can be represented in this group. I don't hesitate to use a .308 Win. in the Swede so long as the rifle is set up and machined correctly and the shooter/reloader uses standard practices.
If you want to shoot the belted mags, the Dakotas, RUMS, WSM's or cartridges of that range, get an action suited for that use. Leave the Swedes for classic cartridges in classic stocks that exude style and performance. They are perfectly capable of handling more but you could ask, why bother?
Best.
jptatum,
" Has anybody ever heard of one of these coming apart? I haven't but I never looked for it.
No, I haven't. Remember how many of these rifles that were converted a few years ago, also.
Best.
Nice to see that someone is looking out for my opinions...
Best.
It is one thing to know the answer to a question.....to explain it in terms everyone can understand, in writing, is difficult. At least for me.
I have looked for information on destructive tests on the Swede action several times and never found anything. Other Mausers and the Arisaka, yes.....but, nothing on the Swede.
I'm not planning to try for 3000FPS with a 140gr bullet.....just curious but, not willing to use my rifle as the test bed.
In reading the history of the Swede '96 action I would think they would be stronger than your average action. But the point, as other have made too, is why push the action to it's limits when you can have a perfectly great round without doing so. One of the seriously redeeming qualities of the 6.5x55 is that is has always been right at the top of the ballistics spectrum since it's inception. That's mostly the bullet. It outshoots many 'magnums' that are higher pressure. So, why would you want to change that? It'll do everything you need it to within it's pressure parameters.
Load safe and take care.
"I have looked for information on destructive tests on the Swede action several times and never found anything."
While this may be an important piece of information for some folks, destructive testing on the Swede has not been undertaken by anyone in these modern times that I'm aware of. Now that I've made that statement, someone will crawl out of the woodwork with some test report from somewhere...
Mauser did some testing (understatement) in Germany at the beginning of the project but after releasing the reports and sample actions to the Swedes, the Swedes opted to produce their own steel and send that to Mauser for manufacturing. That metallurgical report has been online occasionally and simply states that the Swedes wanted a higher quality steel which they were already producing that the Germans did not have access to for this project. Mauser used the Swedish steel to produce the Swedish Mauser actions. The report was issued by some metallurgical engineering society which took pains to assess and study the Swedish steel before pronouncing it the best steel available at that time.
I think that the biggest factor that drives folks to use the Swedish Mauser for the higher pressure modern cartridges is (or was) the lower price. They see (or saw) them as being a cheap way to get a 'custom' rifle. Never has this been more true than with the cobbler faction who buy Mauser M98s for the same reason. They choose not to afford a modern rifle but opt for a less expensive, surplus action in order to save a few dollars. They can buy a cheap, low quality barrel pre-threaded and chambered, screw it on the action, drop that barreled action in a cheap Butler Creek or Hogue stock and call it a 'custom' rifle. Whatever...
As I stated before, the Swedish action is a truly marvelous example of both metallurgy and manufacturing. I have no reason to use them for modern high pressure cartridges because there are so many classic period cartridges which will work flawlessly through those actions without the higher pressures. The 6.5x55 cartridge is probably as close to a nearly perfect all-around cartridge available today. Why fool with it?
Best.
Thank you for the informative response.
On the Swede, your one sentence sums it up perfectly......The 6.5x55 cartridge is probably as close to a nearly perfect all-around cartridge available today. Why fool with it?
grandman, I apologize for hijacking your thread! Please post when you get back from your testing.
The 3rd 98 lug doesn't figure in since an action has already failed when that comes into play.
These actions are both cheap enough for someone to rebarrel one each to
30-06 , develop proof loads then follow up with headspace change check, unbarrel and inspect for Brinelling (surface failure)of receiver lugs and bolt lugs.
If a Rockwell machine is available, a check of locking surfaces can be made.
I'd be surprised if the Swede didn't turn out to be at least equal to the 98.
Military 96 6.5s should take more powder since they're freebored about 1/4" due to leades being cut for the original roundnosed 156 grain bullets.
That was Weatherby's trick.
It seems like the sights are set for 200 yds. I will post a picture of the sights so yall can take a look. They are ajusted all of the way down to what I beleive is 100 yds.
I am goingg to try to shorten the OAL and try again with the 140 grs, I f that don`t work I am going to try 47 grs RL-22 and work from there.
You have described the POI....how big are the groups?
Also, with issue sights, you WILL be approximately 6" or so high at 100 yards. Unless you have installed a taller front sight.
You can email me the pics and I'll post them.
Posting photographs is a simple process once you do it by the steps. Here is a link to the 'Sticky' at the top of Ask the Experts titled "Posting Photographs":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294
If you have more questions, post again or e-mail me so we can get you going with pictures.
Best.
Your rear sight is an original piece for the Swedes but, not until way after the DOM of your rifle.
Notice that it is graduated from 300 meters up to 650 meters. Even at the 300 meter setting you should be about 6", or so, high at 100 yards. They are NOT target rifles (even though they are very accurate), they were designed to put bullets into man-sized targets from point blank range out to 650 meters.
All adjustments, to get the POI you want, should be made to the front sight. The rear one is just for shooting at ranges over 300.
In order to get your point of impact (POI) where you want it, you must first find an accurate load (no matter where it hits) and then use the sights to move the POI to where you want it. Just like with a scope.
There are several sites that sell taller front sights for Mausers. You should probably look for the one marked "+.350". Install it and file it down until it matches where you want to hit. Fire a group....file it down to make the group lower....it really doesn't take much so be careful not to overdo it or you'll have to start all over again with a new sight. (Don't ask me how I know that)
Sorry if my post sound condescending, it surely isn't meant that way. I just have no idea how much experience you have with MILSURPS.
I have had some experence with guns all of my life but I have never seen any sights like this. I kinda had a idea that I was going to have to file the front sites but just wanted another opinion before I destroyed it. I was thinking that the rear site was in the area of 250 - 300 yds.
Well this helps a lot, I now know that I will use Kentucky Windage.I know you were in the military and so was I and you probably don`t like to hear the term Kentucky Windage. But thanks for the insight and I appreciate the advice. Sounds like this gun is going to be a good long ranger. Thanks,
140s, mine will manage 4".
I have also had limited but overall positive results with 125 grain bullets.
guntech59 you said that you got under 3" offhand with your Swedish in one of your post. Do you have a military version or have you sporterized ( scope and stock) on your rifle? I don`t think that I will do anything to this one but shoot it. I like the look and feel of most military Mausers. Sorry for the big picture I will srink the next ones down I hope![:D]
If I said offhand I was SERIOUSLY mistaken. From the bench...sure.
Mine is an original configuration, 1905 dated CG M38. Not a great beauty, or even matching numbers. A "throw together" from unknown origin that shoots very well.
Big pictures do stretch the page and make it a pain to read the text. You're lucky the "Picture Police" didn't get you![:o)]
The only 160gr I have shot were factory (Hertenberger). They shot 3-4" but, flattened the primers quite a bit. Eventually I will get sone 160gr roundnose to try. Meanwhile I have 500 140gr to play with.
check it out I got a star, I guess I am in now there is no turning back.
My swedish looks just like that but Different finish ( flat) So varmints want see ya. Is the front of your barrel threaded?