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Wildcats and other new developments
Alan Rushing
Member Posts: 8,805 ✭✭✭
Greetings everyone. I need some information, references, referrals and direction ...
If you were having a bolt action rifle built for a wildcat or very new cartridge/round with no dimensions documented in your reference books or online ...
I have spoken to every gunsmith that I know in my area.
Those that did build rifles in the past, do not build now.
And none were able to even give me the information that I need. Nor did they refer me to anyone that I have not already contacted!
I have been unable to get the information regarding the actual chamber and brass dimensions. Where would you turn?
If you were searching online where might you find the information. Yes, I know how to surf, but no, I've not gotten far with this project, and I have been on this for too long!
I would appreciate making progress on this project ... can you assist? Thanks!
If you were having a bolt action rifle built for a wildcat or very new cartridge/round with no dimensions documented in your reference books or online ...
I have spoken to every gunsmith that I know in my area.
Those that did build rifles in the past, do not build now.
And none were able to even give me the information that I need. Nor did they refer me to anyone that I have not already contacted!
I have been unable to get the information regarding the actual chamber and brass dimensions. Where would you turn?
If you were searching online where might you find the information. Yes, I know how to surf, but no, I've not gotten far with this project, and I have been on this for too long!
I would appreciate making progress on this project ... can you assist? Thanks!
Comments
What's the cal. you're looking at?
Action, barrel, etc. I bet there are lots of folks here who would be interested in following your progress.
Good luck, and Happy Trails
You need to contact:
Dave Kiff
Pacific Tool & Gauge
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/index.htm
I have some other discussion for you but I will put it in an e-mail after I get back from church tonight.
Best.
The info that I had been looking for is new enough, that I'd not expect it to be listed there either. With a lot of effort I have so far been unable to find any solid info. regarding them, to even determine if there would be anything there for me. I guess not!
I have nothing against wildcating or wildcats. Improved or the standard fare is what I am interested in for this rifle. If it would satisfy my needs and desires, I had been interested in utilizing the R&D that had been covered and incorporate or utilize for my rifle.
I have not interest in just having something different or deadend.
I have more than a few qualms about jumping on the wagon, especially with the idea that it is the newest or most hyped about thing around.
I have a fair selection of small and medium bore rifles to hunt, shoot or even plink with whenever.
Not expecting to be heading out to Africa, Asia or anywhere else out of the US to hunt now. May have completed my Alaska and out of country hunts.
I've had in mind getting another favorite rifle for myself that would incorporate the best characteristics of those that are most important to me. At this point it seems that the best thing for me is to go in the direction I had contemplated awhile back ... the appropriate RUM on the best rig that I can get into.
Thanks for the input in my little journey folks, appreciated!
In fact I think of the huge polar bear at the International Hotel in Elko, Nevada...taken with a 30-06.
I personally have nothing against any particular cartridge that I can think of right now, at least not any that I've ever used. As always, I take the opportunity to try other folks pride and joys out, at any opportunity!
I have hunted a range of settings and conditions, like most hunters that I know. So that means nearly every sort of weather that is dished out to any of us.
I tend to favor hunting the more open, sage, mountains and the edges or burns of mtn timberlands. Been in the brushlands and thick timber, just favor the more open views and hunting, for the most part.
The probability of me hunting or shooting out of N.A. is slim, to none. There might be opportunities to hunt Alaska again, (hope so, though it won't be this season)! I love the mountains, the only thing better than seeing what is over the ridge, is to check out the backside of the next ridge!
Yes, I know what it takes to be dependable (on it's end)) to cleanly and efficiently harvest or put-down a range of game that I've hunted, or might bump into in the dark of night.
For hunting generally I like to use the lightest caliber that will do a good job of anchoring whatever game that I am hunting, under varying circumstances.
For the sort of hunting that I tend to do ... I lean towards, very good velocity, flat trajectory and for me, and very importantly great accuracy. I use the highest BC and the best quality bullets, that will open well for the distance, velocity and game that I am after ... and able to "afford".
When I lived in Alaska, I knew folks that hunted everything with the same cartridge, bullet and rig. Set-ups, that I would have felt reasonably comfortable and secure with IF I were going out and searching for the biggest, meanest and most tenacious (did I say biggest?) Kodiak Brown or Arctic Polar in the fastest, closest most dangerous encounters that anyone has experienced!
CAN big bears and other big game be taken with a .30-06 {or even "lesser") cartridges? Of course, and if I HAD to, I'd use what ever was in my hands, or most readily available. I have been there, and done that (not hunting them though!)
I have known of people purposely hunting bear, with (IMHO) bullets/calibers: too small, too light, and/or fast. How about 25-35, 32WS, 30-30? (There were folks that shot every bear they saw with 22's.) Ethical? Smart? ... of course not ... beyond stupid, reckless, careless and all of that. Hey, however, they were safe ... in a powerboat, moving along in the river. No problem ... not for them, just for the bear and anyone and everyone that bear encountered before it finally died!
I have not as yet ever gone hunting for any bear and don't plan to either. A good hunt in bear country for me has always been to see them first and far away, and avoid every ehich way possible. Never to surprise them and stay away from them any time and every time possible. (Usually it worked, reasonably well!)
How would you like to be rigged up for hunting sheep in the high, open country packing the 7MM RM with fantastic handloads ... great! Then experience bad encounters of the death defying sort, with even modest sized Grizzlies on the way out? Not the best experience, but a "good" one if you survive!
If I was using the 30-06 (which I know and respect and appreciate) I'd load it with the best bullets for the task, and not doubt myself or the caliber or the cartridge.)
However, when many of the folks that I knew were going to whip barrels, shorter and/or cut-back barrels, ultra light stocks, and the lightest fixed power scopes they could locate. I was very confident (and reasonably comfortable) with the heaviest, and highest quality, highest power variable scope that I could afford. I also used heaviest and most solid steel one piece scope mount and rings. I wanted to assure myself as best possible that the bullet would hit as it did at the range ... right where I wanted it. I plan to have the longest barrel needed to milk all of the power from the case.
At this point what I had been hoping to do was get the best, most dependable and efficient rig, cartridge and scope that I can afford. I have been interested in the cartridge being more accurate than I and the rig being capable of potentiating that accuracy. Not looking for a jungle, brush or thick woods caliber or rig. Not a single shot, lever, pump, or auto. (I have nothing against any of them, have used each at one time or the other.)
I expect to get into a good, solid, dependable bolt action, and have pretty much narrowed that down to two or three contenders.) If I were able to get back to the North country to do some serious, all season hunting, I would be taking this rifle, and I would expect it in one loading or another to cover all the bases.
I am not proficient at ultra long distance shooting as a sniper, target competitor or hunter. However I am a proponent accuracy on all counts. And I am decent in taking what I go after for the way I hunt. I would like a cartridge and rig, that would be very accurate and proficient at much greater distances than I would need for the hunting that I have done (muleys, antelope, goats and sheep ... but would not come up short in the right situation for the much greater distances of serious, personal range shooting or possible longer range hunting potential.
Regarding the cartridge I have some of the more standard, or classic non-belted non-magnums, and I have a coupe of belted magnums. I have had a lot of interest and appreciation of the newer non-belted magnums. Several have the potential to cover many of the characteristics that are most important to me. I was interested in having the most recent R&D info that I could locate regarding the cartridges using the .416 Rigby, in order to compare and contrast that with what folks already know and are familiar with regarding the RUMS. I'm not particularly infatuated with the big bore calibers, but I'm not fearful of checking them out for their parental brass/cases either.
Had not intended to write so much, but with my requests and the responses I have received, figured that I ought, clarify where I was coming from and where I expected to go with all of this. Not attempting to step on toes, compare my needs, wants or uses to yours in a negative way, or stir anyone up needlessly. Take care and have a good week!
and thanks, Alan
Thank you for that post and clarifying. I guess I would have to say that for the lower 48 as I suggested the you won't need all that much. But for Alaska, up-gunning is a natural hedge on a bet. I worked up in Bethel back in '96. I think had I been single I would have stayed. But, I knew there wasn't going to be a whole lot of happiness had the wife moved up to that town. One thing about Bethel, all roads going out of town...end. There is no continuation to anywhere else except by plane.
Anyhow, the hunting would have been good had I gotten to stay even just a little bit longer. As well as the fishing. Most of the local Inuit never owned big guns. Stuff like .222, .223 and .243 were very common. .308 and .30-06 as well. In fact I haven't seen so much .222 on the shelf since I was a young kid back in the early '70's.
On the other hand most of the people who came up from the states went with magnums. .300 Win mag being the most common. .338 Win Mag was getting real popular up there. My tenth grade math teacher went up there for a hunt in the late '50's, early '60's. He told me he took his .270. Everyone in the plane had this look on their faces like he was going to get eaten for not bringing enough gun. But he harvested a bear, some caribou, and I believe a Dahl sheep with one.
Not surprising is that almost no one owned a Weatherby up there. Even when you saw them they were of an exclusive group coming in. With ammo at a cost (back then) of over $60 a box up there it just wasn't going to happen. Strangely, I didn't find much in the way of reloading either. I would've thought that might be a lot bigger up there. But, since everything is limited in what you can bring along, loaded bullets would be the easiest to work with. This was also in the times before hauling around a few pounds of powder was an OMG! thing. I'd seen enough gasoline in barrels and cans and white gas getting flown out to various camps. I wouldn't think powder would be much of an issue after that.
Anyhow, I really only made a couple points based on your response to nn. To answer your first question, without a doubt Dave Kiff. Or you could search around for other custom reamer makers.
Heres a couple:
www.jgstools.com
www.z-hat.com/ReamerList.htm
One guy I shoot with up North was asked how he made an arbitrary decision to do one thing with the reamer and not another. He responded, "That's how Dave Kiff decided to do it." I kind of thought that was funny. But it shows how many gunsmiths trust what he says.
-good luck with this project
I hope that all is well for you?
I did follow thru and you were of course correct about Dave ... he did respond. Had emailed, followed with a couple of calls. He gave me graphics enough to think about.
Would be very helpful to know the effect of some of those changes vs. the end results ... comparatively. And invaluable would be having the opportunity to talk with him.
Don't know if at this point I would manage to inquire of reasonably intelligent questions. Think sometimes it can get the brain to functioning on a different level.
I will have to find out when and how he might be available. For now, I think that email will probably have to suffice. He seems to be quite busy also.
I want to get an email out to you but am up to my neck regarding some personal affairs or business, been tied up and having to focus on a different sort of real world dilemas.
Will attempt to catch up with you later. Maybe we will both be more available. We'll see.
Take care.