powder charge for .45 acp

.45 rules

Finally getting to work with my dillon square deal press. First time hand loading. I've done a lot of reading on the subject, but not seen anything about free space in the brass. What I mean is using the Lyman third edition loding manual, for .45 acp rounds using speer 230 tmj bullets. The chart( for which I'm using bullseye powder) calls for 3.8 (min) to 5.3 (max). having not done this before I was figuring on using 4.0. but after calibrating the powder dispencer, when charged, the case is only about a third full, whith about a third of the case occupied by the bullet, that would leave about a third of case empty. My question to which I have never seen brought up, is , is it ok for the powder to be essentially loose in the case, or should I be using a bigger charge? The rounds are for target range use with a smith and wesson .45 1911 with a five inch barrel. I have used many types of different ammo at the range, but never seen load charge or powder tpye indicated on the packaging, is there a reference chart for this anywhere? Hoping not to bore you all with what may be a dumb question. But I've allways been of the mind set that the only dumb question, is the one you don't ask that can hurt ya. Certainlly as it pertains to loading ammo. Thanks in advance for any insite on my questions, new to posting but have been reading your posts and eagerly learning from you all for a while now. Happy shooting, marv

5mmgunguy

Welcome to the forum...You will be fine...although the 4 grains of Bullseye may be a little light. I would try it before loading alot to make sure it will cycle the action. Enjoy.

bpost

That light of a charge may not function your gun reliably. normally it takes about 4.5- 4.8 to cycle most 45's with standard springs.

Bullseye is a very Fast powder, it takes small charge weights to get the job done, it is an ideal powder for target shooting. It is VERY wise to double check the powder charges when using Bullseye, a double charge will destroy a gun.

When shooting the 230 FMJ my favorite load is 6.0 grains of Unique.

perry shooter

Hello loading 45ACP is not rocket science. However you need to consider a number of factors. If you add a red dot mounted to a slide or even a Bowmar rib the you need more powder to fully cycle the pistol. #2 a 5foot 7inch 250 pound brick layer will get his gun to fully function with a load that a tall skinny old man ME or a petite will not be able to get the pistol to function . The best way to test your load Is to load one round in the magazine and when fired the slide should lock back if it does not then increase the powder charge 5% at a time until the slide locks back. Too much powder will beat up your pistol too little it will not function Throw away an buffer in the gun they cause function problems and will wear the hold open notch on the slide. Match the load to the weight of the spring and the slide weight
and the shooter. I have 300,000 through one of my match Pistols with only one broken part Extractor shooting WW II steel case ammo in a test.

CapnMidnight

Bruce and Karl have given you some of the best addvice you'll ever get, they speak the truth. I'm a 6' 250 lb guy who's shot a 1911 since my senior trip in 1968. I've loaded 5grs of Bullseye and a 200gr bullet for more than 30 years, works for me, may not for you.
W.D.

44shotdoctor

I shoot bullseye in my sprinfiel xd. 230g bullet with 4.6 works very well. Thats about 840fps. Thats fast enough for a 45 ball round. A 45 dosn't need speed it moves slower and ripps apart its victum. Thats what makes a 45 such a cool round.

partisan

5 grains of Bullseye works for me.

Rocky Raab

A full hundred years ago, John Browning designed that gun and that cartridge to work together using a 230 hardball and 5.0 Bullseye. They've worked together perfectly ever since. I think we might call that well enough tested to simply start - and stop - right there.

.45 rules

Thanks for the pointers guys. I decided to start with 4.5 grains. Made 50 rounds to start,next trip to the range went well, gun cycled well and grouped well. I decided thats ok for me right now, just finished cranking out the rest of the first 500 rounds. Good thing to, went to the ammo store today (Bulk retailer), and was told there were no .45 rounds to be had. I did notice many of the rounds seem to buldge the side of the brass on one side but smooth on the other, the overall dimensions are the same, but seems like the bullet was being seated a little crooked. Is this a problem?

perry shooter

Hello the word Buldge always scares me when I see it . If this bulge is just in front of the case head Then this is a danger sign indicates a possible KABOOM in your future. However if it is near the case mouth or at least in the area that the Bullet is touching in a loaded round Then this COULD be that the bullets are started crooked when seating in the case . DOES the seater plug match the contour of your bullet nose . round for ball bullets .cone shaped for Semi Wad cutter[?] I modify my seater plugs to only contact the shoulder of the bullets with semi wad cutters. Then you get uniform OAL and bullets dont get deformed when seating. Can you take a picture of this bulge and send to me[?].

.45 rules

These first two pics are of one side, and then the other of the rounds (same round). You can see the lip of the bullet in outline on one side but not the other.




these next two images are three rounds side by side, shown in different sharpness and contrast as it is hard to show something that reflects so brightly.



I hope this gives you a more clear idea of my question... It seems as though the bullet is not seating as squarely every time.

.45 rules

Better camera..

this is the worst round, or best example,...



I turned it so that you can see that how the top and bottom of the round sit.

bpost

That is normal when loading FMJ's some will even look a bit like a coke bottle, it is a distraction but not a problem. The die manufacturers need to assure good bullet grip so the die is a bit tight to reduce the chance of a bullet getting driven into the case during the feed cycle. Some brass is thicker and will show a more pronounced bulge than others.

perry shooter

as Bpost stated NO PROBLEM I suspect if you use Remington or TZZ cases you will not even see this . We had another post Here not too long ago with the opposite problem . Cases of one brand may be thicker then others The Maker of reloading dies has to pick a size If they pick the smaller end of the spec then the reloads with .452 bullets and thick WW or WCC MATCH or Federal brass will look like yours on the other hand if the die maker picks the large end of the spec and you try to load .450 diameter bullets in thin cases Remington among others then the bullet may almost fall under it's own weight until it rest on the powder or be pushed deeper in the case when the bullet hits the feed ramp during loading [V][xx(] This can cause BIG PROBLEMS . The bullets you are loading most likely will shoot very well> It is hard to find Ball 230 grain bullets that are the correct size.452 most are under size as small as .450 and they dont shoot near as good groups. I would not change a thing.

Wulfmann

quote:Originally posted by partisan
5 grains of Bullseye works for me.

I was a Bullseye loader for 15 years and it is very good but it is also dirty.

I have switched to RamShot ZIP and basically the same just cleaner.

If you get a chance, any Bullseye guy, try ZIP. You might convert as well.

I certainly would not switch if I had 20 pounds of Bullseye but if you are running low pick up a pound of ZIP I am guessing you will have a similar opinion.

Wulfmann

jonk

My favorites for the .45 are Bullseye and Red Dot, which is only slightly slower in burn rate but a bit bulkier.

I get reliable operation with as little as 3.5 gr of bullseye but YMMV.

45Kimber

I am using 5.7 grains of Win 231. What I learned when I started loading for .45 is
1) Using a chronograph to verify velocity and preasure is a huge help!
2) Pushing the bullet in half way and then spinning it 180 degrees and seeteing the rest of the way helps with a centered seating.
3) Making up loads of three diferent over all lengths and testing for accuracy can be very enlightening (.002 differences in length)
4) Using a chronograph to verity velocity and preasure is a huge help. [:D]