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.38 special wadcutter problem

EmmittEmmitt Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
I recently purchased a S&W Model 10 .38 special with a 4 inch barrel for my wife to target shoot with. I am new to reloading for the .38 and after some research decided on Winchester brass, CCI 500 primers, 148gr Speer HBWC, and 2.7gr of Bullseye. All went fine except for all the lead residue left on the revolver. I decided to try Rainier 148gr copper plated DEWC to eliminate the leading problem. I used the same load and after test firing ended up with a squib and a bulged barrel. Can't wait to get the bill from the gunsmith for that little mistake, but at least no one was hurt. Some may say I missed loading powder in one case. The gunsmith said to up the powder amount because of the plating. My question is what would be a proper load for this bullet?

Comments

  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,438 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since you already have Bullseye, try 3.5 grains.

    When you say "lead residue left on the revolver" do you mean IN the bore or ON the outside of the gun? (NEITHER should be happening with that load.)
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • EmmittEmmitt Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was lead in the bore as well as on the frame above where the cylinder meets the barrel. It took me over an hour to clean using Tetra Gun copper solvent. We had shot 100 rounds. This revolver was in like new condition.
  • SCorversSCorvers Member Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use 3.0gr of Bullseye for target practice. The 3.5gr will work but has a little more "bark". And we don't want the ladies getting any bad flinches. The bulged barrel is interesting.
    I use a Lee powder drop for consistent loads.
    I believe what you are calling lead residue is actually the grease from the cast bullets. I switched to a Bayou Bullets coated bullet to solve that problem for good.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Please explain the lead in the barrel.... were the bullets cast or swaged? leading is a issue of size and it could be the swaged bullets. Your charge is VERY light, it should not lead the barrel.

    FWIW Bullseye is an economical powder due to charge weights being so low, however, it is also easy to err with it. You may want to get some Unique to increase charge weights and give yourself more of a cushion for minor discrepancies in charge.

    A DOUBLE charge of Bullseye WILL blow up your gun, a double charge of Unique will fill the case to the top and be VERY obvious. With Bullseye the charge difference between a squib and a full power load is very small.
  • SCorversSCorvers Member Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SCorvers
    I use 3.0gr of Bullseye for target practice. The 3.5gr will work but has a little more "bark". And we don't want the ladies getting any bad flinches. The bulged barrel is interesting.
    I use a Lee powder drop for consistent loads.
    I believe what you are calling lead residue is actually the grease from the cast bullets. I switched to a Bayou Bullets coated bullet to solve that problem for good.


    Just reread the OP and noticed you are using hollow base wadcutters. I'd try a double base wadcutter ot a standard wadcutter. I'll have to look, but the HB's don't like to be pushed too hard.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You may have pushed the Hollow base too much I have seen the front blow off the base the front goes out the barrel and next shot Rings the barrel . Did your squib go puff and then did you check the barrel or did it recoil and sound normal but the next shot ring the barrel[?][?]
  • EmmittEmmitt Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 1st bullets I shot were Speer (.358")148 gr swaged HBWC. They were okay, no problems, just leading. The Rainier 148gr DEWC is the problem. I was shooting on a very windy winter day with ear protection so I did not hear much. I was firing double action when this happened. Didn't even notice a problem until I had stopped firing.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,438 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your problems may go away with the new barrel you need.

    I suspect that there was a dimensional problem between the cylinder throats and the old barrel, leading to leading. The gun may be a bit out of "timing" so that the cylinder doesn't exactly line up with the bore when the hammer falls. The gunsmith replacing the barrel should check for that and advise you.

    Shipping guns is a pain in the keester, but S&W does a superb job of re-building guns the right way. You might want to consider shipping it to them. Contact them and ask their opinion. You'll get back a gun that's truly as good as new.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • CookECookE Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know if this will help or not, but if you were shooting lead bullets and then switched to plated bullets this is what might have happened. If you did not really get your barrel completely free of lead left by the lead bullets and then you shot plated bullets that means that you were pushing the plated bullets thru a smaller hole (barrel) due to the lead build up in your barrel. That will cause a bullet to stick in the barrel. MY REAL GUESS IS THAT (DON'T TAKE ME WRONG, PLEASE) YOU MISSED CHARGING (PUTTING IN POWDER) IN ONE CASE AND THAT ROUND STUCK IN THE BARREL AND THEN YOU FIRED THE NEXT CHARGED CASE AND *****KABOOM*****. KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY AND ALWAYS WEAR YOUR VEST................CookE
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,036 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    fwiw, I got a great deal on some Speer 38's like those (they are swaged, and VERY soft). I could not get them to 'not lead' any barrel I fired them in. I melted them down and cast round balls for my muzzle loaders.
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A friend tried every wadcutter on the market and never did find one that did not lead the bore to some extent. I just bought Speers by the thousand and went shooting, mostly PPC matches. I cleaned enough to keep the leading down to a level that did not hurt accuracy and did not try to get the gun sparkling clean.

    Insufficient powder charge for a plated bullet caused the OP's"squib".
    The coefficient of friction of copper on steel is the bad actor, doesn't matter that the plating is thinner than a jacket.

    Another friend could not stand the sight of leading and loaded some JSPs as though they were wadcutters. Friction stopped a jacket in the barrel, inertia pulled the lead core which made it all the way to the target! Ear protection kept us from noticing a difference in report and there was a new hole in the target so he fired another shot, and a number more after that. When cleaning the gun, he felt a patch "jump" the bulge. He used a correct load after having the barrel replaced.
  • EmmittEmmitt Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I really appreciate all the information everyone has posted. But when I get the revolver back from the gunsmith with a new 4" barrel what load should I be using? I will still use a Winchester case, CCI 500 primer, and the Rainier 148gr DEWC which is a copper plated wadcutter. I have both Bullseye and Unique to work with.
  • gregoryhart1gregoryhart1 Member Posts: 518 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I found a few things for you.
    My Speer book lists loads for BBWC and HBWC. BBWC loads with Unique they call for 4.5 gr to 5.1 gr, with velocities of 868 and 981 fps. Bullseye is listed at 3.9 gr to 4.5 gr, with speeds of 813 and 933 fps.
    Speer lists only Bullseye loads for HBWC with loads starting at 2.8 gr and going to 3.1 gr, with speeds of 741 and 799 fps.
    My Hornady book includes BBWC, HBWC, and DEWC in it's listings, with no distinction made between bullet profiles. Unique is listed at 2.4 gr to 3.5 gr, with velocities of 550 to 750 fps. Bullseye starts off with 2.1 gr and goes to 3.0 gr, with velocities ranging from 550 to 750 fps.
    It's interesting that the Hornady loads are much less stout than what Speer recommends. I have no doubt in your Smith's ability to handle the stronger loads. I'm also curious as to why Speer wants the HBWC bullets to move slower than the BBWC rounds. If anyone can tell me why I'd love to know.
    As far as the Rainier bullets go, Ranier recommends using lead loads because according to them, their bullets are much softer than a jacketed bullet and have less resistance going down the barrel.
    I hope this info helps you out. Another thing you might try is to e-mail Alliant's customer service department for load info. I've done it many times with great results.
    GH1[:)]
  • wellerswellers Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just another thought, lite loads with HBWC & Bullseye often need a filler. I had similar problems in my younger days with essentially the same gun/load combo, (though no ring in the barrel) and eliminated it by using a filler between the powder charge and bullet. This can be corn meal or a small wad of TP, doesn't bother anything, just keeps the powder where it belongs for even burn.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    Two issues-

    What diameter are the bullets at and what diameter is your bore? An undersized bullet will lead horribly. Slug the bore with a slightly oversized round ball or fishing sinker, measure with micrometer or GOOD calipers. Then measure the bullets. They should be 1/1000" over bore diameter.

    Second- what if any lube is on the bullet? If no lube, buy a $3 tube of Lee liquid alox, roll the bullets in it, and let dry.

    One other possibility- with a HBWC, you can expand the skirt to fit and seal the bore if otherwise undersized... but the wimpy load you're using might not accomplish this. I'd up it to 3.5 gr and try again.

    Should be NO need to use a filler with bullseye.

    FWIW I think a squib and lodged bullet is most likely. I've shot down to 1 grain of bullseye with 148 gr wadcutters for plinking in the garage in the winter. Yes it is still loud (neighbor came over and asked what was going on- I pointed to the nail gun and a half finished project, end of discussion) but never had one fail to come out the other end- but was SURE to load every case.

    I bet you had one with like .3 gr or no powder at all followed by one with powder.
  • Pistollero1050Pistollero1050 Member Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I load alot of cast bullets and encountered the same problem. The first guy has it right. If the powder charge is too light it will not expand the base of the bullet enough to keep gases from melting the bullet and you get leading. Up the powder charge like he say's and your leading will go away. The base of the bullet will seat better and you will get a better seal in the barrel.
  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    Please try the Laser Cast bullets from Oregon Trail!
    No leading due to the hardness of them and an alloy with Silver in it.
  • meunkemeunke Member Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
    Please try the Laser Cast bullets from Oregon Trail!
    No leading due to the hardness of them and an alloy with Silver in it.


    I had some leading issues with some WCs I bought from midway. Try these http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=62&category=5&secondary=9&keywords=

    I use 'em all the time and never have leading issues. I usually put them in front of 3.7gr of 231.
  • CookECookE Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    EMMITT, If you would email me at oflippersjma@gmail.com
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