260 Rem, short barrel, long range

remingtongeo

I have a customer who wants to shoot long range, 1000 yd, and his rifle is almost done. The problem is that he ordered a 260 Rem with a 20" barrel, 1:8 twist. I have so many thoughts going through my head that it is about to explode.

If I run a light match bullet at 2750+ fps for him I'll burn his barrel out in no time. If I stay with the heavier 140gr area bullets I won't get enough velocity. Is there even enough barrel there to do any good at 1000 yards? I hate to tell him that he may have bought his once in a life time rifle and it won't do what he wants. And lastly why didn't the gunsmith tell him to put a longer barrel on it?

Help me. I need to read some good thoughts.

X-Ring Ammunition LLC

Rocky Raab

Your response should be, "I think it's an ill-conceived project, but I can deliver it in x weeks."

XXCross

Unless your customer is going to be using a scope exclusively, a longer sight radius would be a BIG advantage....say something in the order of 26 to 28 inches. Most long range shooting is done from the prone position or from a bench, so there would be little if any advantage in having a short barrel. Does this guy have ANY experience at long yardage or is this just a fantasy trip?

rsnyder55

If I am reading this correctly, a longer barrel may give you greater velocity depending on the bullet and the powder.

I believe this is one of the ways Weatherby gets the extra velocity out of their rifles, they typically have a 26" barrel.

remingtongeo

I didn't have a long talk with him, yet. I don't want to crush the guys dream rifle but it should only be good to 600 yards with that barrel. I've been down this road before with people that shoot great at 600 yards or less and then get out to 1000 and just can't figure out why they aren't punching out the 10 ring. Any thoughts on powder or bullets will help. In the mean time I'll try to explain the ballistics to him.

X-Ring Ammunition LLC

oneoldsap

As you weren't the Gunsmith on this project why not just go ahead and do your work without comment . Your customer will find out soon enough that he should have consulted someone ( like the smith that built the rifle ). Some folks get an idea in their heads and you aren't going to change their mind no matter what you do . My first question is "are you sure that's what you want" that is the only chance I take to straighten them out if they are on the wrong track . If in answer to that question they ask for my opinion , I will offer it while trying not to step on anyone's toes .

JustC

2750fps is fairly slow for the 6.5mm bore dia. My 6.5x55AI and 6.5-06AI will readily run 2950fps and have gone over 3000fps.

Get some 140's up around 2850-2900fps and I bet he will fine on paper.

20" is a little short,...is there time to have the smith not cut off the extra length?

Hawk Carse

Customer probably read one of several gunzine articles about short handy kewl tackytickle ninja snipper rifles, and how you can't SEE any difference between short and long barrels.

If he is buying 1000 yard ammo, he is probably low in experience and high in budget.

nononsense

remingtongeo,

Can do and should do are two completely different options.

Can he get to 1,000 yards with a 20" barrel + .260 Rem + 130 gr. bullet?

Yes,

We test and shoot lots of different cartridges in the shorter barreled format. Not because it's a great idea but because a client asks about the possibility. The .308 Win. is very popular when combined with either an 18" or 20" barrel. It makes it to 1,000 yards and has demonstrated accurate performance.

The .260 Rem. makes it to 1,000 yards easily when combined with a 130 gr. VLD class bullet. When fired in a short 20" barrel, the handicap is noticeable but not tragic. Of course there's an increase in both drop and drift due to the loss of velocity but the higher BC of the VLDs helps keep you on paper at that yardage. I'm running about 2700 FPS with the Berger 130s over Accurate 4064 and the bullet is still supersonic at 1,000 yards. This is a fairly gentle powder but you can increase velocities by jumping to a double base energetic powder.

Would this be my choice? No way! Is it doable? Sure.

The Lapua 123 gr. Scenar is a top performer also with the same powder.

The Berger 140 gr. VLD is doable but you need a compressed load of Hybrid 100V to get it going fast enough. V V N-550 works, too.

Best.

sandwarrior

quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
Customer probably read one of several gunzine articles about short handy kewl tackytickle ninja snipper rifles, and how you can't SEE any difference between short and long barrels.

If he is buying 1000 yard ammo, he is probably low in experience and high in budget.


Agreed!

I've run into so many people that say a 20" barrel is all you need to get to 1k. True. But why handicap the process with a shorter barrel? If you can get him to go to a longer barrel I would do so. If it's already done then tell him that's what HE wanted. When that barrel goes out the door it certainly deserves a reminder of how long it isn't going to last pushing bullets as hard as they will go to get him to 1k.

As for getting to 1k he can do this with a number of bullets. As for burning out the short barrel with light loads it isn't going to happen as bad as you may think. Your best bet I would think is to recommend the three 123 gr. LR bullets out there and a moderately fast powder. Those would be the new Sierra, Hornady A-max, and Lapua 123 Scenar.

This short barrel syndrome is a little like the Grendel craze going on. I had one guy turn to his buddy and tell him I had no idea what I was talking about and to get an 18" barrel over the 24" barrel. People are buying these like it's the next guaranteed contest winner. It's not. It'll get you there, but not as fast as a .260/6.5x55 or improved version of either.

But, it (20" barrel) will get you there. And that's what HE wanted.

remingtongeo

Thanks nonosense and sandwarrior. I wasn't thinking IMR4064 with the lighter bullets. I was thinking Berger VLD's but not with that powder.

I know a lot of people that think the "scout" type rifles are the cat's behind. But the short barrels do present possibilities and challenges. The shortest barrel that I've shot 1k with was the M1A's. I've had, or have, long range rifles in 243 International, 308, 30-06 and 300 Win mag. None of the bolt rifles had a shorter barrel than 24".

Great advice everyone, current and future. I'll post again when I know how everything worked out.

George Pavel
X-Ring Ammunition LLC