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Sandwarrior and others...Can you help me...

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
interpret my data from 300 AI that I shot today. I'm shooting 190 grain VLD's and I went up to 3200+ fps with no noticeable significant pressure signs and no velocity spikes (with RL-22). It appeared as if I would have been safe to continue up the ladder but I was somewhat concerned b/c of the velocities I was seeing (again, no spike in velocities...just a steady increase with each load). How do I determine if I can safely continue up the ladder (just watch for the velocity to spike?)?

The H1000 on the other hand plateaued with no noticeable gain in velocity from 82.5-83-5 grains of powder. These are compressed loads. Please disregard shots 1 & 2. I adjusted my scope after firing the first shot and then the second shot. No adjustments were made for the remaining shots. Shots number 1&2 on the RL-22 target are fouling shots with a different bullet (180 grain Nosler E-Tip) and charge, both of which were over 3200 fps.

One thing I did notice is that the shots got progressively lower with the higher the velocities got (not higher, like I expected). I also noticed that this barrel seemed to like velocities between 3000-3050 fps with RL-22 and then about 3150 fps with the H1000...so I'm guessing the harmonic frequency it likes with this bullet is going to be up in this range.?.? Should I expect to see that big of a velocity range?

The targets are below. The first target is with RL-22 and the second target is with H1000. This was shot at 200 yards. That is the longest range I have nearby that has solid benches.

One more thing worth noting is that I got 118 fps higher velocity with my rifle than the published data (of 74 grains RL-22) for the same load with the parent cartridge. I don't know if that means anything or not.

There was a steady 10 mph wind with gusts of about 15 mph when these targets were shot.




RL22.jpg



H1000.jpg



RL-22 Target

1-Disregard
2-Disregard
3-71 Gr RL-22 2938 fps
4-72 Gr RL-22 3006 fps
5-73 Gr RL-22 3037 fps
6-74 Gr RL-22 3088 fps
7-74.5 Gr RL-22 3119 fps
8-75 Gr RL-22 3173 fps
9-75.5 Gr RL-22 3181 fps
10-76 Gr RL-22 3209 fps



H1000 Target

1-79 Gr H1000 2935 fps
2-80 Gr H1000 2971 fps
3-81 Gr H1000 3024 fps
4-81.5 Gr H1000 3065 fps
5-82 Gr H1000 3129 fps
6-82.5 Gr H1000 3179 fps
7-83 Gr H1000 3184 fps
8-83.5 Gr H1000 3179 fps





I would love to hear what you guys might be able to tell me about the data here!

Thanks![8D]

Comments

  • rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,626
    edited November -1
    Faster bullets sometimes strike lower because they leave the barrel sooner as the barrel is rising from the recoil.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Eric,

    Harmonics can work downwards as well as upwards. What is the length of your barrel?

    As far as the wind goes, you don't worry about it for this test. Horizontal dispersion doesn't have to be worried about here.

    Anyhow, you say 1-2 of the H1000 were scope adjustments. Why, if you already shot the R22? Because if all you did was adjust L-R you still have excellent vertical dispersion of 1-2-3. I will say though, that 3-4-5-6 gives excellent vertical dispersion with the H1000.

    It appears as the best vertical dispersions is the 3-4-5 of the RE-22 and 6-7-8-9. Even 10 which falls in the middle of that group. You might want to start at 4 and 8 of the RE-22 load down and up in .5 gr. and see how those shoot to verify this test. If you want try #6 on the H1000 loads (re-shoot 4-8).

    If you find accuracy at the lower node you may choose not to keep going up. Remember this test is about accuracy, not speed. Remember what I said about not letting the speed results interfere with this test?

    To help with this test see if you can go longer. Remember that all the chrono numbers are for is calculation of ballistics. I'd personally be pretty happy with any three of those nodes to start loading with.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    Eric,

    Harmonics can work downwards as well as upwards. What is the length of your barrel?

    As far as the wind goes, you don't worry about it for this test. Horizontal dispersion doesn't have to be worried about here.

    Anyhow, you say 1-2 of the H1000 were scope adjustments. Why, if you already shot the R22? Because if all you did was adjust L-R you still have excellent vertical dispersion of 1-2-3. I will say though, that 3-4-5-6 gives excellent vertical dispersion with the H1000.

    It appears as the best vertical dispersions is the 3-4-5 of the RE-22 and 6-7-8-9. Even 10 which falls in the middle of that group. You might want to start at 4 and 8 of the RE-22 load down and up in .5 gr. and see how those shoot to verify this test. If you want try #6 on the H1000 loads (re-shoot 4-8).

    If you find accuracy at the lower node you may choose not to keep going up. Remember this test is about accuracy, not speed. Remember what I said about not letting the speed results interfere with this test?

    To help with this test see if you can go longer. Remember that all the chrono numbers are for is calculation of ballistics. I'd personally be pretty happy with any three of those nodes to start loading with.



    I've got a 27.5" Lilja barrel (#5 contour, I think). This is just a long range hunting rifle.

    You are correct, I only adjusted the windage...so 1-4 of the H1000 are all very close vertically (2,3,4 being the closest).

    Thank you very much for the information. I will keep you posted on the results.[8D]

    I sure do miss my 500 yard range back east. I also had 1000 on the other side of the property. There are places to shoot longer distances out here, but I need to get me a good solid portable bench. I've got my eye on one, but it's about $750 shipped.[B)]
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you have a spot you can set up solid in the prone, it's just as good.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    If you have a spot you can set up solid in the prone, it's just as good.



    That's tough around these parts...too much vegetation.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    with a 190gr VLD, I would say you are approaching danger zone with 3200fps, if not near max load. I have a 30", 10 twist, PacNor in 300RUM that only gets about that velocity with a 200gr SMK. That is about as far as it wants to go with 88gr H1000 and then the bolt lift gets sticky.

    I am thinking you are near or at max load. Now, work back down from max load, using Dan Newberry's "round robin" method of the creighton audette ladder method, and in short order, you will have your load.

    If you have accuracy at 3100fps and a 190gr pill, you have all you need to get to 1000yds with all the supersonic energy you need.

    Keep in mind, the 6.5mm's are in their accuracy node around 2950FPS, and make 1000yds EASILY, with plenty of heat left over.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    with a 190gr VLD, I would say you are approaching danger zone with 3200fps, if not near max load. I have a 30", 10 twist, PacNor in 300RUM that only gets about that velocity with a 200gr SMK. That is about as far as it wants to go with 88gr H1000 and then the bolt lift gets sticky.

    I am thinking you are near or at max load. Now, work back down from max load, using Dan Newberry's "round robin" method of the creighton audette ladder method, and in short order, you will have your load.

    If you have accuracy at 3100fps and a 190gr pill, you have all you need to get to 1000yds with all the supersonic energy you need.

    Keep in mind, the 6.5mm's are in their accuracy node around 2950FPS, and make 1000yds EASILY, with plenty of heat left over.



    Thanks for the info JustC...I figured I was probably reaching max loads...is it unusual not to see a pressure spike when running up the ladder if you've reached a max load? There was no sticky bolt or anything either. There was some very slight cratering on the primer (a tiny ridge forming around the firing pin indentation). With the H1000, the velocities plateaued. The RL-22 was just a steady increase...no spike or anything. I'd like to know what kind of pressures I'm actually getting but I don't guess there's a way you can test that very easily.?.?

    Would you be hesitant to work on loads between 3150-3200 fps if this ends up being what my barrel likes?

    Would you call 3200 fps my max load and just work back from there?
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would be looking very closely, since 3200fps was reached.

    primer craters are normal if it is a factory sized firing pin hole. I see that even on factory ammo in factory rifles. if the firing pin hole has been "bushed", then you are definitely running high pressures. Keep in mind, RL22 has a faster burn rate than H1000.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something to think about here. 3100 (Edit:)is one of the standard loads for the earlier 7.62x67 A191 (.300 Win Mag). Using a 190 gr. SMK loaded to 3100 fps. So, with an Ackley, 3200 would certainly be close to max. There is definitely no need to make it hotter.

    Revert back to what I first said about this if you will. Many people I know who shoot an Ackley version of a round do so to save brass life, not get hyper velocity.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a link to case prep that I use several of his tips!
    http://www.tacticalgearmag.com/page/tactical-gear-exclusive

    He did not mention inside case primer hole uniforming which seems important for consistency!

    When I first start testing I do not go for velocity, I go for CONSISTENT ACCURACY! (a high velocity bullet off target does not impress me)

    I load 3 rounds each of three loasds of a powder choice, low, Avg med, and 1 gr below Max per the reload manual!

    I test and if the group looks promising I reload 3 of the load and retest! I then load powder grains slightly above and below if I'm trying to shrink the group! If just slightly off what I'm looking for I vary the type of bullet next!

    During the finals I cold test the barrel, and this takes time, One shot with a cold barrel to the same target over several days and look at the group! I also shoot a warm barrel group, but I'm mainly interested in where the first cold barrel round goes! Some barrels, loads etc, will look good with a warm barrel, but the first shot from a cold barrel is no good! (this can be aggravating, but it's real world stuff and your load is just slightly off base for tuning the barrel vibrations! Also some barrels will prefer a slightly fouled barrel for best groups! I keep a heads up when cold barrel testing as to whether the barrel is thourghly clean or slightly fouled from previous shooting when cold barrel testing, so as to get a feel for what the barrel MAY prefer!

    I also glass bed the rifle, float the barrel, do a trigger job and then do my part at the bench!

    Have fun testing!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    Something to think about here. 3100 (Edit:)is one of the standard loads for the earlier 7.62x67 A191 (.300 Win Mag). Using a 190 gr. SMK loaded to 3100 fps. So, with an Ackley, 3200 would certainly be close to max. There is definitely no need to make it hotter.

    Revert back to what I first said about this if you will. Many people I know who shoot an Ackley version of a round do so to save brass life, not get hyper velocity.





    That's what I'm doing too...it just so happens that may barrel seems to like 3150+ fps...that's why I'm asking about the pressures.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you are far enough up the pressure curve, and if primer pockets only last 5 firings or so, you then have your proof. About the only thing that goes bad on Ackley cases is the primer pocket (assuming you anneal necks every so often)
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    I think you are far enough up the pressure curve, and if primer pockets only last 5 firings or so, you then have your proof. About the only thing that goes bad on Ackley cases is the primer pocket (assuming you anneal necks every so often)



    Thanks for the wealth of info guys!
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