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Stuck cases...

HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
I have had two stuck cases in less than 50 shells![:(!] I lubed empty cases and cleaned my die before I started. I'm tearing the rim right off! I'm trying to size some Lake city 5.56 using RCBS small base die. What am I doing wrong? Is it because of the small base die?[xx(][V][:(]

Comments

  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stuck cases are due to several factors. Dirty brass, dirty die, poor lube, damaged brass and too much jerking of the press handle.

    You've cleaned the dies, so that probably eliminates that problem.

    If your brass was fired in a machine gun, it may be badly swollen or damaged.

    The brass may be dirty.

    You may be using poor lube or insufficient lube.

    You may be working the press handle too violently, ripping the rims before the brass can release.

    Finally, any or all those conditions can be made worse by using a small-base die.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • skyfishskyfish Member Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not from small base die. Lube issue. I have only stuck 223 in all my reloading. Get too big of batch or try and hurry too much. Rip rim off.

    What kind of lube, spray lube? Make sure can is well shaken. I've noticed with Hornady one shot, it seems to be more effective near bottom or end of can. Make sure shaken well. Apply evenly, like a auto paint technique. Don't just wiggle the can like a 8 year old spraying paint. I spray 3 angles from 30 degrees off horizontal so some lube gets inside neck. I use a 16"x18" piece of cardboard, spray. Turn one third, spray, turn one more time. I can get 100 rounds if I stack carefully.

    Also, after cleaning die and reassembling, spray with one shot and let dry.

    Learn to feel the brass go in, if it squeaks and you feel it binding into the die. Like hard/give/hard/give. If you don't stop and back out, it will get stuck. If one feels bad, back down. Either put sizing wax on finger. Or I have even, sprayed my index finger and thumb to put a little extra on a case or two.

    The "feel" going into the die is important. You have a lot of leverage with any of the bigger presses. RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady. I do all my sizing on a RCBS Special 5, in between a Rock Chucker and Partner press. I can still rip the rim off pretty easy.
  • HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They felt smooth/firm going in, actually felt harder than they should, with all cases. Its empty Black Hills ammo.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What lube? As they say on Mythbusters, "THERE's your problem!"
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clean brass, clean dies, Sizing wax. Smooth movements and stop when it "feels" wrong.
    This may sound strange but for years I dumped about 100 freshly cleaned brass in a brown paper sack, gave a 2 second shot of spray "Pam" and shake the bag. Never had a problem and I loaded thousands and thousands of 5.56 like this. Never had a stuck case ever
  • tskrytskry Member Posts: 517
    edited November -1
    I have had similar problem with Lake City and GFL brass, the only thing I could figure out was that I was using Hornady One Shot case lube I switched to RCBS Case Slick and it seems to have helped. Also I have found that with small base brass you need to take your time while resizing and if something feels different back the case out and try again. hope this helps.[:p]
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Only use the SB die if it is ABSOLUTELY necessary, in most instances it is not needed.

    Stuck cases are caused by NOT USING IMPERIAL SIZING WAX

    Everything else is a stuck case looking for a place to happen.
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,088 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One Shot is your problem. I've stuck more cases with that lube than all others combined. Finally gave it a toss and changed brands.
  • XXCrossXXCross Member Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the very few occasions that I ever felt it necessary to use a small base die, I always ran the cases through a regular full length die first and then repeated the process with the small base die. Never stuck a case ! (don't forget to lube the inside of the case necks !)
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    sounds like me when i first started. ill bet i had at least 10 stuck cases with ppu brass before i finally got it right. Now for lube i just put enough brass in a large tupper ware container to cover the bottom give it a quick spray with pam shake it around another real quick light spray and then add in a handful of un lubed cases and shake it up. I get very few dents in the neck maybe 1 in 100 and havent had a stuck case yet. also though i slowed down. i think that was my main problem. now i pay attention to how much pressure it takes to decapp the brass and if it feels to tight i back off and put in a different case with more lube on it.
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,088 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I recently sized about 7000 mixed, range 223 brass w/o a single stuck case. I use a LEE Challenger press with the steel rod handle so, to cut down on shoulder/elbow movements, I cut the handle from about 12" to 7". Using Midway elcheapo spray lube applied in a plastic tray to about 150-200 cases and shaken briskly and LEE dies I size as fast as I can pick up and take off cases(which is pretty fast=20-25/minute). The shorter handle lets me feel oversize or hard sizing cases and stop before a hard jam.
  • HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Must be the Oneshot. As far as the Pam goes, regular or butter flavored?[:D]
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I view spray lubes as an abomination. They are expensive per ounce, require a lot more than "one shot," get overspray on and in everything, have to dry before use - and then fail.

    Get some Lee water-based lube, or some Hornady Unique Lube, or -best of all- some Imperial Sizing Wax. A TWO-ounce tin of Imperial has so far lasted me ten years, and is less than a quarter used up. All I do is swipe my fingertips across the tin and then handle the brass as usual between basket and press. That's all it takes. Effortless, cheap to the point of free, and I have NEVER stuck a case even during case-reforming operations with wildcats.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    imperial sizing wax and be done with it.
  • Pistollero1050Pistollero1050 Member Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sold a friend one of my RCBS SB dies and he did nothing but complain. He had two stuck cases and said the brass would not go in the die. He said he was using RCBS spray lube. I used the die again for 600 rounds with no problems. I refunded him the $15. Can't figure out what his problem is. Works good for me and I use One Shot or RCBS. Does the Pam mess with the powder or is it just as good as the made for products. That is alot cheaper.[:(][V][:(][8D]
  • HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Problem solved! Not enough lube, doh! Sprayed some more Oneshot on em and they are feeding like buttered glass![:D] I think the spray lubes make people use to little. Think spray paint, too much and it runs.[:I]
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most people that diss on oneshot are simply not following the directions.Either let it dry or help it to dry completely before attempting to size the case.Its just that simple. I only use Imperial when forming cases.
  • HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like the oneshot. Aside from these two 5.56 cases Ive only had one other get stuck. Same problem, not enough lube. I think its good stuff.[;)]
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to ask; why use an expensive gimmicky spray or messy liquid when the top shooters, those that load tens of thousands of cases, feeding VERY expensive rifles almost universally use Imperial Sizing Wax?

    A ten-dollar tub of the wax will last for years, never let you down, does not leave a mess on your case and will not stick a case in your die.

    Maybe I am getting old and curmudgeonly but I just don't get it.

    Until a superior product is PROVEN, I'll stick with Imperial Sizing wax, Kroil, Butch's Bore Shine, JB Bore paste, one piece cleaning rods, bore guides and flannel patches.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by B17-P51
    Most people that diss on oneshot are simply not following the directions.Either let it dry or help it to dry completely before attempting to size the case.Its just that simple. I only use Imperial when forming cases.
    I followed directions. It worked mostly. Still stuck 1 or 2 cases with it. My problem was the horrific waste. You line your cases up on a block and spray 'em, most of the spray just goes off into the air. I did much better by spraying them in a ziplock bag, but then I might as well just use a regular lube and put a few drops in and knead it around, no reason to use the spray anymore.

    That's what I do now. I dillute some Lee case lube with the highest concentration rubbing alcohol I can find about 10:1, dump the cases (around 30 at a time) in a ziplock, and pour in a little of the lube. Knead around, take out and let dry. Usually just enough gets in the neck to take care of that as well.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jonk and bpost, just let these youngsters reload for a half century as we have. They'll see the light eventually. At this age, they are still attracted to small shiny objects.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • zimmdenzimmden Member Posts: 237 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rocky, It couldn't have been said better !! My 2 oz of Imperial Wax is 10% used after 6 years of steady use and ZERO stuck cases. Too bad all products aren't this good and cheap.
  • joshmb1982joshmb1982 Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Hollywood
    Must be the Oneshot. As far as the Pam goes, regular or butter flavored?[:D]


    I think it's butter flavored. [;)] first time i heard of it i thought yea right. but damed if it don't work. i tumble them all again after that anyway so the residue isn't a problem.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my tin (yes I said tin) of sizing wax is so old, IT'S A TIN, not a plastic container as they have been for a number of years now. That's how long ago I bought my last one[:0] I can't even begin to guess how many thousands of cases have been sized out of that container and it is barely half used

    I do however use the liquid lubes for the mandral in the trimming machine. That allows the case to slide onto the mandral nice and easily.[;)]
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    I think that Imperial is a bit overrated. I think it's great stuff, don't get me wrong, but it's mainly lanolin and you can get that a lot cheaper than Imperial. Kind of like buying brake cleaner instead of 'gun scrubber.' Same stuff, 1/3 the cost.

    It is a pain to use though. If I were just loading for 1 or 2 bench rest guns, it would be all I'd use, but for now I'll stick to dumping the cases in a bag as outlined above.

    FWIW- been reloading 12 years. Not quite a half a century yet but 1/8 of one. [:D]
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jonk, I don't think Imperial is mainly lanolin. Hornady Unique is mainly lanolin, but it has such a different texture that it is nothing like Imperial. Imperial used to say that it is made of "two waxes and two oils" but they wouldn't say which of either. If I had to guess, I'd say carnauba and beeswax plus mineral oil and something else. It certainly seems mostly wax to me. (And mine is in a tin, also!)

    BTW, Hornady Unique Sizing Lube is Mink Oil boot paste. Identical. Either one is almost as good as Imperial. But not quite.

    Lastly, I can't understand how using Imperial is a pain. You have to pick up each case to put it in the press for sizing anyway, right? So just slide your fingertips across the Imperial and handle the cases as always. Repeat every ten cases or so. That's literally all there is to it.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    http://trophysoutdoors.com/node/6788


    I use the redding brand I think it was 6 bucks at Sportsmans. Its great
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yup, Redding bought the rights to Imperial.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • HollywoodHollywood Member Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:So just slide your fingertips across the Imperial and handle the cases as always. Repeat every ten cases or so.

    So there is the kicker to Imperial! Here I thought all you had to do was have a tin of it and you were good to go! Now you throw in this manual labor, maybe this stuff isn't as good as sliced bread![:0][:D][:D][:D]
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK Imperial still comes in a tin. Got some from midway a couple weeks ago. It's 8 bucks. The funny part is this. I thought well heck everyone is braggin this stuff up so much, I'll try it. So I got 4 tins with an order of other stuff from midway. It gets here and the first time I use it I'm having some Deja Vu. I look in one of the tubs under my bench and there is a tin I had been using nearly 20 years ago. Seems at some point I thought a lube pad was better (young/shiny stuff) whatever. So I am back at imperial wax. It's still the best...I've donated a few of the new imperial tins to new loaders...

    Of all the things I've lost, It's my mind I miss the most.

    p.s. I used to use the regular PAM the butter stuff just made me hungry
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Funny story - or it would be if I didn't keep finding stuff under MY bench!
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • B17-P51B17-P51 Member Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    Jonk and bpost, just let these youngsters reload for a half century as we have. They'll see the light eventually. At this age, they are still attracted to small shiny objects.


    Rocky, Do think everyone else on this forum just started reloading yesterday?
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I have to ask; why use an expensive gimmicky spray or messy liquid when the top shooters, those that load tens of thousands of cases, feeding VERY expensive rifles almost universally use Imperial Sizing Wax?

    A ten-dollar tub of the wax will last for years, never let you down, does not leave a mess on your case and will not stick a case in your die.

    Maybe I am getting old and curmudgeonly but I just don't get it.

    Until a superior product is PROVEN, I'll stick with Imperial Sizing wax, Kroil, Butch's Bore Shine, JB Bore paste, one piece cleaning rods, bore guides and flannel patches.


    You say: why use an expensive gimmicky spray or messy liquid when the top shooters, those that load tens of thousands of cases, feeding VERY expensive rifles almost universally use Imperial Sizing Wax?

    AMEN to the above statements!
    Also get the neck Imperial Dry Neck Lube when you get the Imperial sizing Die Wax!

    I've reloaded for several years and never even knew that Imperial existed until about 2 years ago when I started reading these forums! I had intermittent stuck case issues when using the other case lubes unless I flooded the cases with excess lube, then I would get wrinkled shoulders on the cases due to too much lube and sometimes still stick a case, even when being trying to be careful and short stroking the press! Imperial Sizing Die wax eliminated all these issues! I place the small Dry neck lube container inside a slightly larger bowl when using to protect from accidental spillage. (it's a dry type graphite and real messy if spilled)
    You can readily review the products at Midway reloading supplies![:D]
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Of course not, B17. But it IS true that less experienced reloaders tend to go for "gimmicky" things rather than tried and true basics. Look at the number of threads from brand new reloaders who want to begin with progressive presses, as one example. If that's not going for the glitzy, I don't know what is.

    I put spray lubes in the glitzy and gimmicky category. They are indeed expensive, wasteful, messy - and not always very effective. In comparison, a tiny tin of Imperial seems bland and boring, except that it is cheap, frugal, clean - and works to utter perfection.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One photo is worth ...

    Here's my tin of Imperial. I've been using it for at least five years, and as a reloading writer, I reload a lot.

    Imperial005.jpg
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • 1917watercooled1917watercooled Member Posts: 93 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If your reloading 30.06 on lets say a Dillion, RCBS, etc. and your looking at several thousand empties. Do you stop and rub the wax on each piece or do you somehow prelube the brass before hand? If before could you describe how you do it. I have been using Dillon's spray lube but would step up to the wax as it lubes better but doesn't slow down the reason I'm sitting there.
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It would help if you'd read the thread. In a post above, I said that you slide your fingers across the wax, and then merely handle the cases as usual from bin to press. That's it. No pre-anydamnthing.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • 1917watercooled1917watercooled Member Posts: 93 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry for the lack of attention to your posts. Will purchase a tin after you and others give it high recomendations. Will be looking for your by-line in "Anger Management Monthly".
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1917watercooled
    Sorry for the lack of attention to your posts. Will purchase a tin after you and others give it high recomendations. Will be looking for your by-line in "Anger Mangement Monthly".


    Yes, We responders have to go to the Anger Management DAILY for counseling quite often.
    Both, before and after replying to some threads![:D]

    Have a nice day and make reloading a testing fun thing!

    We can cure anything but a broken heart, usually![:)]

    NRA Supporting Member!!!!!!!!!!
  • TopkickTopkick Member Posts: 4,452 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lots of good information here!

    I use a slightly different method that has worked for me for the last 3 years of metallic reloading.

    I have all 50 cases in the tray and only spray the necks (Hornaday One Shot) at an angle to lube the case mouth inside.

    I then lay 10 cases at a time on my RCBS lube pad and give them a few rolls.

    I also have a grease rag handy.

    This has worked flawlessly so far.

    As an aside, I loaded (200) 30/30 and (270) .223 last weekend while my wife was out of town, just to pass the time. I really love reloading!
    I have a RockChucker, a Lee Classic, and a Lee Turret press and only load about 11 calibers.

    I have been reloading shotgun shells for nearly 35 years and still love it.
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