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Caliber option for 6.5 Swede action?

I have a Swede 6.5 action but want something other than the 6.5X55 which I already have.

Any suggestions on what to build that this action can safely handle?

Comments

  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RowdyDan,

    What condition is your action. This can range from nearly new to poor with lots of pitting and a wide range of pluses or minuses in between.

    What do want to do with this rifle when you're finished? This makes a big difference as to an appropriate cartridge.

    Which brings up the point that caliber is a reference to diameter. A cartridge name will reference the case and the caliber.

    Best.
  • navc130navc130 Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    According to Bolt Action Rifles by Frank de Hass: any cartridge developing less than 45,000 psi breech pressure with a 30-06 head size, with a overall length less than that of the magazine. Some cartridges within these limits are: .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, 6.5x57 Mauser, 6.5x55, 7x57 Mauser, .300 Savage, 7.65 Mauser, .35 Remington and, for the Swedish Mauser only, .308 Winchester.
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,748 ******
    edited November -1
    "What condition is your action. This can range from nearly new to poor with lots of pitting and a wide range of pluses or minuses in between. ".........well I've seen a LOt of Swedish rifles and NEVER, EVER seen a rusted/pitted one.........that said, I agree with the other posters, to include the great 9.3x57mm.
  • telohftelohf Member Posts: 913 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am building a 7.62x39 on a Swede action. Ive had a couple before I sold them and really liked it. Light weight, light recoil and cheap ammo makes for a great all around heavy timber short range rifle.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well good for you Mike! I guess I've seen something you haven't and not just one either. Granted there are lots of Swedes out there in good condition but there are quite a few that have been neglected and a few that were abused.

    I was trying to give a thoughtful, considerate answer but I guess the mood here is to just jump right in and start naming cartridges with no regard for end use.

    And by the way, as an aside, the operating pressure for the 6.5x55 is 55,100 PSI.

    Good luck with your project.

    Best.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,193 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense


    Well good for you Mike! I guess I've seen something you haven't and not just one either. Granted there are lots of Swedes out there in good condition but there are quite a few that have been neglected and a few that were abused.

    I was trying to give a thoughtful, considerate answer but I guess the mood here is to just jump right in and start naming cartridges with no regard for end use.

    And by the way, as an aside, the operating pressure for the 6.5x55 is 55,100 PSI.

    Good luck with your project.

    Best.




    Not to be argumentative, but where did you get that pressure rating from?

    I have always seen 45-46,000 PSI for the 6.5x55. The difference between old military and a commercial action? That shouldn't affect the the SAAMI spec though. Right?

    I am careful (and conservative) when loading for my 1906 CG Swede.

    EDIT: I may hay answered my own question....here:

    http://kwk.us/pressures.html
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 12,960 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't confuse PSI and CUP. It is commonly accepted that the Swede action is better suited to higher pressure rounds than other small ring 93/95 Mauser actions. Thousands of the Swedes were commercially converted to 22/250, 243, and .308 by the early Kimber company.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    guntech59 and Mobuck,

    It's a great point to make when it comes to differentiating between the two forms of pressure measurement. I'm sorry I forgot to put that in the original post but I was in a rush and forgot...

    The Swedish Mausers are superb actions and rifles by design and construction. They were manufactured with the best metals available as sited by all of the professional manufacturers/engineering societies of the time.

    The Swedish Mausers also place at the top or very near the top at the military rifle competitions. I use a couple strictly for these types of competitions. It's a great cartridge in wonderful rifle.

    As far as generic cartridges are concerned (peak operating pressure being the overriding concern) you have all the choices from 9.5MM (.375) down to .224 (.22 cal.) and everything in between if you stay with the Swedish case and don't mind a little wildcatting. My choice would be the 6mm Arch which is based on the Swedish case just necked down to 6mm. But if your tastes leaned toward the bigger game cartridges, you could try the 9.5mm (.375) x 57 Mauser or Mannlicher-Schoenauer or the 8.5mm (.338) x 57 on the x57 Mauser case. The bushing-style dies make these changes relatively easy when you do a little mix and match.

    Then again there is nothing wrong with the good old 8x57 or the 7x57 either.

    Best.



    Best.
  • RowdyDanRowdyDan Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What condition is your action. This can range from nearly new to poor with lots of pitting and a wide range of pluses or minuses in between.

    What do want to do with this rifle when you're finished? This makes a big difference as to an appropriate cartridge.

    Which brings up the point that caliber is a reference to diameter. A cartridge name will reference the case and the caliber.



    Sorry, should have added more information of course.
    -Action is in excellent shape.
    -I just want to shoot it when I am finished. I have all the armament I need for any game on the planet. My only complaint is that I don't own a rifle in every caliber ever made.[:)]
    -Yes, I meant cartridge rather than caliber.

    Ok, that said, I haven't owned a 22-250 in a number of years and somehow let all of my 308s get away from me over time so either one of those would be interesting.

    Would there be any unusual problems to solve when going with a shorter cartridge such as a 6mmPPC or a 6.5 Grendel?
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am not a gunsmith but the one I deal with said that back in the first flush of surplus sporterization, pre GCA '68, he never worried about OAL or magazine function. Nearly all he set up were target and varmint rifles fired single shot. (He really preferred the FN Benchrest single shot action to any surplus.)
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    7.5x55 GP11 Swiss

    Best.
  • RowdyDanRowdyDan Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense


    7.5x55 GP11 Swiss

    Best.




    Would I face any unusual challenges going with a shorter cartridge such as a 6.5 Grendel?

    I also like the idea of a 6.5X284 but not the expense of replacing a barrel, or setting one back, after a couple of weekends of prairie dog shooting.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RowdyDan,

    'unusual challenges'

    Absolutely!

    The M96 or M38 Swedish Mausers are intermediate length actions designed as battle rifles.

    The Grendel is a little, short, sawed off cartridge with a smaller rim than the Swedish Mauser cartridge. It is best suited to small bolt actions or semi-auto magazine fed rifles/pistols.

    The claw extractor of the Mauser design would require significant modification to the bolt face as well and the extractor. The magazine box would need a complete redesign along with the spring and follower. This should also include modifying the ejector and box. It's a complete redesign and fabrication of a classic action which is better suited to using standard intermediate length cartridges. This has been done by folks who have way too much time and desire to try stupid things. Most of the time, they end up wasting a perfectly action because it was cheap from the start.

    If you insist on using this action for prairie dogs, the 6.5 x 284 is the wrong direction to take. You would ruin the barrel is short order and blame us for the suggestion. I have built x284 cartridges on Mauser actions but with the intent of hunting, not shooting prairie dogs. These cartridges used in the intermediate actions have a lot powder space which is generally not conducive to shooting rapid fire on attacking prairie dogs. The balance between the light bullet and lots of powder is off.

    Personally, I think you just want to use the action because you have it and it was probably less expensive than other new rifles so you want to make it work for something. You're trying to make it into something it isn't. But you can't make an all-around rifle that will do everything without some definite compromises. If you want a rifle to shoot prairie dogs, get a slow twist barrel made to shoot short, lightweight bullets. If you want a hunting/plinking rifle, get a barrel with a standard twist and shoot a standard cartridge.

    Build a nice hunting rifle on the Swede and enjoy it for the next hundred years or so...

    Best.
  • 62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Try the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. Just about the perfect balance of capacity for maximum efficiency in the quarter inch bore.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 13,200
    edited November -1
    I've never read anything bad about the .257 Roberts or the Imp..
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RowdyDan,

    I'll weigh in on your 6.5 Grendel question like this; It is intended to work in an action as short as the AR15. That is much shorter than the Swede action is. The Swede action is going to be a dream for you if you convert it to a medium length round, i.e, any Mauser or .308 based case.
    It is also true that you are going to have fits if you try to chamber it for a round with less than .473 as a case head. It's pretty easy to remove metal. It's really hard to put metal back, especially in a strength situation as the extractor is. Anything under .473" fits that latter bill.
    The Grendel has a .440 head. Not enough to make it feed easily(more precisely-extract) through that action. If you want a bolt action to make that work start with any modern action based on the .223 so you can cut it out. Or, if you can find one, a 7.62x39. That will work perfectly for that class of case. I would also suggest an American style short action if you want to build something on the BR case or German Kurz case. A Mauser action can be cut and welded (so does the bolt, and it's guts...not easy) to shorten them up for that. Bottom line is a Rem or Win short action proves much easier to work with for those. Also, the Grendel is a snappy li'l round but it isn't the world beater everyone thinks it is. It will beat the lower end .308 bullets @ 1k. But, not all of the higher end bullets. It doesn't hold a candle to the .260 Rem or 7mm-08 @ 1k. Or, for that matter the .243 with LR type bullets @ 1k. What it really is, is the maximum you can get to 1k supersonic with and still fit in an AR15 platform. It just doesn't beat much else. Find or build an AR to put it in and there you will find it a treasure. A mini-Mauser is good if you want it in a bolt gun.

    So to your original point, I would say if you are looking for "unique" you can find or design most any 'improved' case off Mauser or .308 and be happy. You could also push the design in that action and go with one of the short mags. That will take more work (=more money/time).

    I would suggest you just get the stock and everything done the way you like them...but leave it in 6.5x55 and shoot as far as you want to.[;)]
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