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New Problem

uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
edited August 2011 in Perry Shooter Competition Shooting and Reloading Forum
I just acquired a 223 Remington 700 BDL from my pops. It is an older model. It has the original barrel. I just got a 6x24x50 AO vortex mounted on it. Not bore sighted. Threw out a paper target at 50 yards. Hit it, had an alright group (for 50 yards i thought that I should have performed better). Made the proper adjustments and went to 100 yards. (again just to get it on paper not to dial it in).

My group was about 5 inches!!! I couldn't get a tighter group for the life of me. The holes were small no tumbling. the scope was tight. I know my dad has thrown about 500-700 rounds through it and he bought it used.

Could the barrel be gone and out for the count? I waited for each shot to cool the barrel. It has a 24" bull barrel with a 1:12 twist and I was shooting 55 grains. No tumbling.

It couldn't have been me because I also brought my 308 to the range and sighted that in. had 3/4 inch group from a 2x4 front rest and off my shoulder.

I was shooting the 223 from the new lead sled DPT. My 308 large fore end doesn't fit in the front rest part. With the lead sled DPT, its literally make the adjustments and squeeze the trigger. I have had dime groups all day long with it on my old 30.06 and 243....

I'm just baffled....Do I have an excuse to my wife to buy a barrel for my 700? Wouldn't be a bad idea either! Should I try different ammo? I know shortly I will be reloading but I don't want to go out and start reloading if I am going to swap out the barrel.

All Help Needed!! Thanks Guys!!!


-Joe
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    rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What is the rifling on the rifle and the weight of the bullets?

    Possibly the rifling is not optimal for the weight bullet you were using?
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    BHAVINBHAVIN Member Posts: 3,490 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Could need a different load. How long has it been since it had a really good cleaning for copper? I have bought several rifles really cheap because "they don't shoot right". Cleaned out massive amounts of copper and they shot great.
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    bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clean the barrel with wipe-out bore cleaner or something like Butches Bore Shine until a wet patch comes out clean.

    Try a different brand of ammo, stick to 55 grain bullets.

    I would take the scope off and check the bases to make sure they are properly tightened, then remount the scope checking everything.

    If that fails, I would next try a different scope.
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    MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,976 ******
    edited November -1
    AS ABOVE BUT "stick to 55 grain bullets.".........YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY SOME LIGHTER BULLETS ALSO. HAD A .222 THAT SHOT IN THE .2'S WITH 40 GRAINERS BUT 'PIE PLATE' WITH ANYTHING HEAVEIER.
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a 700 Varmit Special in 223. That rifle shot great with factory ammo. Reloads were a different story. Over several years I tried like 20 different powders and bullets, every small rifle primer, 3 different die sets on 5 different presses and yet that rifle always shot better groups with their ammo. Solution I gave the rifle to a friend who didn't mind buying factory ammo.
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well I will clean out the barrel as best as I can tonight when I get home. Also I will take the gun in to a friend who is a gun smith to make sure the base and the mounts with the scope have been mounted correctly.

    I then will try different ammo. I was using Winchester 55 grains FMJ. Costed about 9 bucks fora cheap box of 20. I will shoot better quality ammo. I am not set up to reload it just yet. I need tips, powder, and a neck re sizer.

    Thanks guys I will keep everyone posted.

    -JD
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    jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    The .223 is fairly mild and will get several thousand rounds before accuracy goes south.

    I have a Savage .223 bull barrel gun. I tried Winchester, Hornady, Wolf, Silver Bear, and Ultramax so 1 mid priced, 1 good, and 3 cheap options before I got the dies (already was set up to reload). Some only did 4", others 1.5", everything else in between.

    Started reloading and dialed the load in with neck sized, weight sorted brass, bullets seated just off the rifling, and tried some different powders and bullet weights. I quickly found half a dozen that would shoot under 1", about 2 or 3 that would shoot under 1/2", and one load that would do .25" with pretty much all shots touching at 100 yards.

    Handloading is a must, otherwise it's just chance that a factory load will be just what she wants.
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    76k2076k20 Member Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would remove the barreled action from the stock and see if there are issues there. Could be a warped stock, improper assembly/torque on screws, rough spots, etc. While disassembled, remove the bolt and shine a light in the chamber and muzzle to see what the rifling looks like.

    As others have stated, try different ammo and another scope if you don't find an obvious problem. Agree that copper fouling could be an issue. Good luck with your rifle, let us know how this turns out.
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm going to give it a very good cleaning. Then try different ammo. I won't have a chance to do either of these in about a week or two. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all your help!!!


    -JD
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    sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by uni82
    Well I will clean out the barrel as best as I can tonight when I get home. Also I will take the gun in to a friend who is a gun smith to make sure the base and the mounts with the scope have been mounted correctly.

    I then will try different ammo. I was using Winchester 55 grains FMJ. Costed about 9 bucks fora cheap box of 20. I will shoot better quality ammo. I am not set up to reload it just yet. I need tips, powder, and a neck re sizer.

    Thanks guys I will keep everyone posted.

    -JD


    Your problem is that you were probably shooting 'white-box' Winchester. Which is de-milled 5.56mm. It's not very good stuff. I have a Savage 12FV that will take great stuff and put it in a 1/2" group. Then use the cheap Winchester 'white-box' stuff and it gets 2.5"-3". I suggest getting better ammo.

    Clean the barrel right down to bare metal then foul it back in. Then take your quality ammo and start seeing what groups the rifle will shoot. Once you get reloading you will see a further improvement.
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    guilty. I was using white box. It states 223 rem on the side, but it was mmmmaaadddd cheap. I will be reloading VERY shortly. Just need to get some 55 grainers.

    -JD
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    oneoldsaponeoldsap Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Give you gun a judicious CLEANING ! ( should have been done first ) then try the same Ammo again ! When chasing Gremlins , change one thing at a time , or you won't know which change caused which result !If the cleaning has no effect , or a positive ( where my money is ) Then try a different Load and see what happens ! Years ago I had a 700 in .222 Mag. and it was incredibly accurate , but had to be kept clean !
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just got the scope looked at. The scout whoever mounted it prior, did a horrible job. it is mounted correctly now. I cleaned out the rifle throughly. It has a mirror finish with no fouling.

    Now different ammo!

    -JD
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    XP100XP100 Member Posts: 436 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Check the crown with a magnifing glass to see if there is possibly damage from cleanig rod. One small ding can cause major accuracy problems.
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Also, slip a piece of paper between barrel and stock and run it down to the receiver. If it doesn't clear scrape or sand tight spots.
    Barrels will shoot away from a rest.
    If you've done everything right and it still wont group you can have the barrel set back and rechambered before springing for a new barrel.
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Update:



    Finally got around to shooting my 700. Produced a .583" group at 212 yds. It was the ammo. I used super performance Hornady. Now it's time to reload!!!!!

    Thanks guys for all your help!

    -JD
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Update:


    I am reloading this round now. I will be using 53 grains V-Max Hornady to see if it shoots well. I loaded about 25.5 grains and set the bullet so its right off of the lands (.008). When i shake the rounds, there is no air gap. Is it compressed and I am going to increase the pressure? Never had this problem before, or is it even a problem?

    This is bullet 1 of my ladder method. I am using IMR 4895 with the new edition of Hornady book. Starting is 24.1 grains to 27.1 grains. is 27.1 grains really compressed with the OAL at 2.255"?
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    victorj19victorj19 Member Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by uni82
    Update:


    I am reloading this round now. I will be using 53 grains V-Max Hornady to see if it shoots well. I loaded about 25.5 grains and set the bullet so its right off of the lands (.008). When i shake the rounds, there is no air gap. Is it compressed and I am going to increase the pressure? Never had this problem before, or is it even a problem?

    This is bullet 1 of my ladder method. I am using IMR 4895 with the new edition of Hornady book. Starting is 24.1 grains to 27.1 grains. is 27.1 grains really compressed with the OAL at 2.255"?




    You didn't indicate what cases you'll be using. If you're reloadin the white box 5.56 brass you'll need to reduce the powder about 10% under what book indicates (unless the book has already compensated for military brass). I'm new to reloading the 223 and didn't reduce my loads. This resulted in some 5-6" groups at 100 yards PLUS punctured primers, having to moderately hammer open the bolt action, primers completely blown out of their pockets, etc. If you're using 5.56 brass, reduce your loads by at least 10% and gradually increase your powder load. I used .5gr increments.
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    uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    they are once fired but not 556 brass. 223 Remington brass.


    Thanks

    -JD
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