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Newbie Know it All

allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,280 ✭✭✭✭
I got an email last night from a guy, might have been from this forum, I asked where I knew him but he wouldn't say.

He said, he has a Zoli .58 Zouave replica, and needed to know what caps to use because deer season opens in a week.
I told him I had the same rifle and had killed 3 deer and 3 hogs with it, great rifle for hunting.

I told him "get musket caps."

He replied "I need to know what size caps to get.

I replied, "Musket caps, that is what they are called."

He replied, "You don't know that it must be either a number 10 or a number 11 musket cap?"

I replied "You really are a rookie if you think musket caps come in number 10 or 11. Since you think you know more about this rifle than I do, no reason to ask me any more questions."

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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is an old German/Yiddish expression: "Eine Schmuck Bleibst ein Schmuck"! "Once a schmuck, always a schmuck!" The definition the word schmuck is Jewel....in slang, of the family kind.
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    bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Further more, I've never SEEN a regular sidelock that took #10 caps.

    Everything I've ever saw was #11 or musket.

    I bought a musket nipple for my Hawken so I could use up some older Pyrodex. Man that stuff looses it's freshness quick!

    I'll put the #11 back on when I use the bottle up.
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    Chief ShawayChief Shaway Member, Moderator Posts: 6,200 ******
    edited November -1
    [:D][:D][:D]
    That's funny right there.
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    Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Further more, I've never SEEN a regular sidelock that took #10 caps.

    Everything I've ever saw was #11 or musket.

    I bought a musket nipple for my Hawken so I could use up some older Pyrodex. Man that stuff looses it's freshness quick!

    I'll put the #11 back on when I use the bottle up.

    The Hawken 209 adapters are great for using pyrodex and triple 7 in the sidelocks!!!!
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    BergtrefferBergtreffer Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, it just goes to prove that you can't cure stupid. Yeah, I have a Zouave .58. It takes musket caps, sometimes also referred to as a "witch's hat" because of what they look like. I shot a dandy 4-point with it using a Civil War minie ball.
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    Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a link where the Mag spark adapters can be reviewed and you can google such!
    http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html
    They totally enclose the 209 ignition flame.
    I've been using them for about 5 years, target and hunting in T/C sidelocks, using triple 7, 2F powder and never have had a misfire using winchester triple 7 209 primers.
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dixie has or used to have cap size conversion nipples to #11 or musket caps in 5/16-18 & 5/16-24 thread for original and repro muskets.
    He needs to measure the nipple top although the much larger musket nipple can be seen at a glance.
    I believe a while back, musket caps were either much more expensive or less available than pistol, rifle and shotgun caps so it's possible but not probable someone changed the nipple from musket size.
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    bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:The Hawken 209 adapters are great for using pyrodex and triple 7 in the sidelocks!!!!


    That is cool. At first I thought you were kidding![8D]
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    Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    quote:The Hawken 209 adapters are great for using pyrodex and triple 7 in the sidelocks!!!!


    That is cool. At first I thought you were kidding![8D]


    Not kidding! I prefer the Winchester 209 triple 7 primers, although the instructions say they sometimes stick in the holder. I've found that the Winchester 209's seem to have correct amount of ignition fire for good accuracy. The magnum type 209's caused the groups to open up, erratically. I've never had that issue, they can be removed with fingernail after firing. I paint the adapter cap blaze orange and carry a spare just in case I drop one when hunting. I also rigged a long handle allen wrench with a knob on the end for loosening and snugging the base of the 209 adapter
    easily on the Hawken rifles. (reason is after several shots are fired the powder residue causes the adapter to kinda stick in the barrel threads. If it sticks hard I just use a bore solvent injected with a syringe thru the 209 adapter and let the threads soak few seconds then gently work back and forth for removal. Also be sure and don't snap the gun with the adapter cap removed (may damage the threads of the base adapter) nor snap very much without a 209 primer inside.
    Also keep a heads up on the Green Mountain LRH barrels and do not tighten the little allen screw down tight against the adapter threads. The T/C little allen screw is shorter and don't usually reach far enough to contact the 209 adapter threads. In the 50 cal I use the Hornady black sabots, think number is 6751 and Hornady XTP mag bullets, 45 cal 300 gr, and 70 gr triple 7, 2F powder and keep bore wiped of soot with a 50 cal bore brush with a patch WRAPPED AROUND THE bore brush between shots and about every 4th shot I dampen a patch on the bore brush and swab until clean, then insert dry patch, insert pull back about 2 inchs and pop a 209 so as to dry the area where the powder load will sit!. Using a bore brush instead of a jag prevents the ramrod hanging in the bore issues. You will be surprised at the accuracy of both the 1:48 T/C twist barrels and the Green Mountain LRH (Long Range Hunter) barrels 1:28 twist at 100 yards using this recipe and a scoped on the barrel, if you don't get the barrel hot or let the plastic sabots get hot thru the plastic package in the sun. (softened heated plastic sabots will ruin a group) I average BETTER THAN 2 inch groups at 80 yards using this recipe. I also use 45 cal LRH barrels for hunting and 200 gr 40 cal bullets for them. Vel will average 2000FPS for 50 cal long barrels and little more for the 45 cal.
    I also use Harvester sabots, both the ribbed and the red high pressure with good results but the red ones are hard to re-load on a cold day!
    Harder the sabots go down the barrel the better the accuracy usually!
    Also always use a bullet and sabot combo that keeps the bullet dia as close to the bore dia as you can. Less plastic on the sabot results in better groups and powder sealing blowby and hangfires if your powder is ok! My guns don't seem to like the 3F triple 7 powder. I've not tried the newer black powders, because triple 7 2F works for me!
    These 209 adapter completely enclose the 209 ignition, no blowback but do still wear eye protection for safety sake. You can't hunt em if you can't see em!
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    GatofeoGatofeo Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I encounter know-it-alls all the time, most often on the internet.
    I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers since about 1970. Learned a few things over those decades, but I certainly don't know it all.
    One never stops learning in this world, until the room grows dark -- and then you begin learning again in an entirely different place.
    I've had Slackjaws (my term for those whose ignorance is evident) claim all kinds of things. They pass on "facts" of history, metallurgy, loading practices, physics, pressures, etc. that other newcomers take as gospel.
    It's difficult not coming across as a know-it-all yourself, but sometimes one has to set the record straight on these "facts" and halt the distribution of erroneous (and sometimes dangerous) information.

    As for the guy who wanted "No. 11 Musket Caps" ... the Slackjaw factor is everywhere today.
    My favorite is the guy who starts a thread, "How much does a .375" ball weigh?" or something similar -- when he could use THE SAME INTERNET to find the answer in less than a minute.
    I can't decide if it's laziness or stupidity.
    This sort of thing might have been excusable before the internet, when black powder shooting books were limited, but hardly today with the combined knowledge of an entire world at your fingertips.
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    rgergergerge Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bought a beautiful old Zoli zouave from an older gent a while ago, he kept in in pristine condition and it had a factory musket nipple installed and a 10/11 nipple in the patch box. He told me that's how he bought it from navy arms in the mid sixties and that he had never removed it, it also had a factory patch word and sniper sights.
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had only seen the "hat" type musket caps but this week I got a junk box of black powder stuff at an auction. There were several red plastic cap boxes marked "Replica Arms" and one bigger green one that said "musket caps". I opened it and it was full of musket size caps that looked like giant no. 10 or 11 caps. No hat brim. New one on me.
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