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S.A.S.S. gun selection questions
mauidiver
Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
For a long time I've considered joining the local s.a.s.s. club. Now that I'm going to I wanted to get opinions of what guns to buy. I don't like anything fancy or anything cheap (inexpensive is good but cheaply made is not) If you were going to get the plainest looking guns what would they be?
Comments
Another good buy is Ruger. These guns are wonderful. The older models are as tough as a tank and will last a long time. However they are a bigger frame than the new model that they are selling now and the price as the amount of these decrease will go up. The new models are based on the Colt 1873 down to the handle. Wonderful guns to shoot but if your hands are like mine the grips that they come with have to go. Too thin and hard to control when shooting, plus I like wood grips better. The other disadvantage is the frame is not as strong as the old model so it can't take the real heavy loads like the old model. Old model will go for around 400 and the new $575
On to the rifle. Personal choice would be a 1892 copy or Marlin. Both are good guns and don't hurt your wallet as much as a 1873 or 1866. If you like this sport enough save up and get a 1873 or 1866, you will enjoy it. 1892-$500 Marlin around $475 1873 and 1866 $1000 all might need some slicking up
Shotgun. If you can find an original Winchester 1897 go for it but keep in mind these will cost a bit more than a Stoeger double barrel but you will be shooting a gun from the era. However if you want to shoot a double barrel the Stoeger would be a good choice. I would stay away from copies of the 97. Although cheaper than the original you will spend more on slicking them up than the original. Again if you want the lever action 87 keep in mind that it is the fastest shotgun on the market but you will have to spend money to slick it up.
97 300-800 depending on type and what was done to it. Stoeger 400-575 depending on type 87 400 *Will need work.
For more information go to the SASS website at www.sassnet.com . Also check out their forum, you might be able to get a good deal on a gun on the Classifieds section. Hope to see you on the range.
Kaskaskia Desperato aka
The first thing you need to do is go to some shoots. See what people are shooting and talk to folks to find out first hand what works and what doesn't. You will probably find that people will be very generous with their time and even offer to let you try their guns to see if you like them.
The second thing you need to do is figure out your priorities and what you want to do in the sport. Like, is competition important or is being more historically correct. Do you like black powder/subs or smokeless. Do you want to go with big bores or not. What particular catagory really interrests you? What is your budget like,,,, etc.
The reason you need to do this is because it can have a big effect on what guns you choose. If you are into the competitive side of the sport, and plan to practice and attend allot of shoots, I would suggest Rugers in 38/357 and an 1873 (first choice) or Marlin 94 (second choice)with a Norinco late generation 97 (first choice) or double barrel (second choice). The reason for these choices is due to the ruggedness and durability of the rugers, cheapness of the 38s to buy or reload and speed of the 73 and 97 (faster than the 94 and/or double). If you are into black powder, you would probably want 45 or 44s, rifle is a tossup (but Marlin 94 is about half the cost of a 73) and you would need to go with a double. Some folks like the stainless with BP, others would rather go with a more historically correct colt or colt copy.
I would stay away from the 92s for new shooters. Just my opinion. They are good guns, but many are not dependable and I have seen many new shooters with them that get frustrated because the guns sometimes do not feed well. Then they end up having to buy new rifle. Also, look at any of the top shooters or folks that have been playing awhile, they all shoot 94s or 73s with a rare bird shooting 66s. 92s can be made to work ok, but it takes work on most guns and the best advice I can give is to stay away from them unless you already have one you can use. Get a Marlin and you can shoot it out of the box and you can race it with just a little work. The gun will run and run and run. It is slower mechanically than a 73, but much faster than a 92.
Also in my humble opinion, I would stay away from the original 97s. I have two and love them. Shot thousands of rounds through them. But, to get a decent one you can depend on will cost you 600 to 8000 bucks. I think the better way to go is to get a new Norinco/IAC 97 for around 360 bucks. Some are ok to shoot out of the box, but if you are competitive or get a ruff one, you can have it slicked up for 100 to 150 bucks, maybe less. You end up with a new gun for allot less money. I have two of these as well and they slick up to run better than the originals. If you do go with the IAC, make sure you get one that has a serial number starting with 06xxxx or higher. These are from the latest batch and are very well made and dependable.
It gets kinda complicated, and expensive, if you change priorities and have to change guns too. Lots of people do, just a good excuse to buy another set of guns. For example, you might get all set up to shoot traditional with Rugers, a 97 and a Marlin and then decide to shoot classic cowboy, at that point, you would have to get a new shotgun and rifle.
The one thing I would suggest against is buying an inexpensive "clone" pistol or BP cap and ball pistols to start (unless you have LOTS of experience with them). You will find that Rugers, Marlins and Winchester long guns retain their value very, very well in cowboy circles, so they can be swapped and traded fairly easily. Ruger Vaquero's are, in my opinion, the gold standard by which all other cowboy pistols are judged. Some others are not so easily gotten rid of.
My reason for suggesting to stay away from cap and ball pistols to start is that unless you have LOTS of experience with them, they will drive you nuts at a cowboy shoot. Most people have problems just getting a full cylinder to fire consistantly. Imaging trying it with two guns and shooting 4 or 5 stages in a day. Without lots of attention to detail and effort, you will be spending all your time fighting and loading you pistols rather than having a good time. I have seen new shooters try this route, only to be disappointed and never come back. I have also seen people that use these and know what they are doing still have problems. Seen them be made to function reliably through an entire match too, with lots of TLC and effort.
Just my take on it. Go to a shoot, I don't think you will be dissapointed.
Hank
I could make recommendations all day but in the long run, it's your money, and you want to invest in something you're going to be happy with, and hopefully hang on to for a while.
For now, as a SASS newbie, I would caution against the 87 (lever action shotgun), the pump action rifles, and the pistols with a lousy fit and finish. Get your boots wet with the basics first, then move into other things when you feel comfortable with it.
Welcome to the game...great bunch of folks...and a ton of fun! [:D]
You know I had an original 1886 Remington Lee Bolt action rifle in 45/70 and it is not allowed in the sass matches!!!
Due to Bolt actions being a new area for gun at the time and that there are so few around or left and that it is not a revolver caliber and safety factor, this may clear up the problems. Plus, it is in the rules, no bolt action. If this was allowed then Krag rifles and 1888 Mauser would be use able. Mmm...(thinking) new Krags on the market due to cowboy action shooting? I like this. On second though, we need bolt actions in cowboy shooting![;)]
Some matches feature what are called "open" or "nontraditional" side matches which DO allow Martinis, Krags and any other gun that would have been made and available during the era, but not normally legal for SASS, to be used. You would have to talk to the match director about that.
Yes, there are some restrictions to what can and what can not be used in the side matches. But for the most part the rules are very lenient. With lever guns, break open single shots (with an exposed hammer, high walls, low walls and sharps type guns, you will find that most of the side matches for long range are very well attended and competetition is tuff.
Hank
I guess they didn't trust us reloaders that much. They were afraid somebody would get sloppy, or try to hotrod the loads, and blow up a gun. [B)] The actions weren't the strongest on the Krags.
Then go to shoots, try different ones, get the ones that look, feel, shoot, etc. the way you like....
I shoot Black Powder (Ffg Schuetzen) and use Ruger Vaquero's in .45 Colt with 200 grain RNFP's. The rifle is a Marlin '94 in .45 Colt. And the shotgun is either a Baikal Bounty Hunter II with external hammers or the Stoeger SXS coach gun.
Seems like it would be allowable but nobody knows.
Wild bunch carbines must be .40 caliber or larger,so most use a 45colt-chambered carbine.
all the side match rules.in fact ALL the rules can be found at sassnet.com
here are the wild bunch rules and regs.
http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO/Wild Bunch Handbook 2013.pdf