US Histotical society

Rex Mahan

I recently purchased a colt 1851 engraved that is a 1850 London Armory commenorative from the US Historical Society.
Its very cool. Nicely engraved and in a display box with tools.
What do yall think of these? Are they very collectable?

Rex

JohnnyBGood

I'm not familiar with the London Armory model you mentioned,
but I did own a U.S. Historical Society Paterson. It was very
nicely done, and void of all the usual gold and chrome plating
you too often see on such commemoratives and limited editions.

Johnny

steg

The so-called commemorative guns of American Historical Society and other companies of that ilk, for the most part are collectable only to people who are into "collectables". They have little interest to serious Gun Collectors, unless the guns originated as 2nd or 3rd generation Colts.
None of these guns are able to even get anything near their original inflated purchase prices on any of the normal internet gun sales...and very few ever show up at gun shows because dealers know they just don't sell to gun enthusiasts.
The only "commemoratives" that have any resale value are those that were originally sold by Colt.
I have an extensive collection of all 3 generations of Colt percussion revolvers, some of which are engraved. My collection includes a genuine Texas Paterson, a genuine Walker, and a matched pair of 3rd generation silver and gold plated engraved M1860 Armies with Tiffany grips.
And don't accuse me of snobbery because I do own to "Historical Society" pistols: The replica Jefferson Davis Sam Colt presentation set, and the same Texas Paterson shown in the previous reply. Mine is Serial No. 2. I have both guns because I think they are pretty, and I got them very cheap.
As for the value of these "Historical Society" presentation pieces, if the gun is originally an Italian repro, not much more than the retail price of the same gun without adornment. Those based on 2nd and 3rd generation Colts fare a bit more...I would say about 50% to 100% more that the retail price of the same gun without adornment and uncased. Sorry, but these things will not fund anyones retirement.

Rex Mahan

Thanks for the reply. I bought the gun because it is just cool. I like the engraving and didnt pay all that much for it

steg

Buying any gun because you like it,or are getting it for someone else who likes it are the only legitimate reasons to buy a "collectable" gun. Those who buy it for any other reason can be summed up as "A fool and his money....."

machine gun moran

quote:Originally posted by steg
Buying any gun because you like it,or are getting it for someone else who likes it are the only legitimate reasons to buy a "collectable" gun. Those who buy it for any other reason can be summed up as "A fool and his money....."


+1

There seems to be guns out there from the various 'historical societies' that even commemorate the 1912 deepening of the sewage treatment holding pond in Wakanatta Junction, NY. Gawd A'mighty.

CapnMidnight

My cousins' neighbors brotherinlaw has one of them Wakanatta Junction Commeratives. Told me it was worth a bunch, now that he's had it 7 years, 3 months and 18 days. He's thinkin' about sellin' it and buying space on Juniors car.[^][;)]
W.D.

flyingcollie

Kinda reminds me of the plaque I saw one time:

"On This very spot, March 21, 1885, absolutely nothing happened."

steg

quote:Originally posted by flyingcollie
Kinda reminds me of the plaque I saw one time:

"On This very spot, March 21, 1885, absolutely nothing happened."

There is a bar in Manhattan, NYC on the west side of 3rd Ave between 13th and 14th Sts. that has that very plaque over its entrance!

Rex Mahan

Steg, would you tell a bit more on why the 2nd Generation colts are better than the Italian guns? I have both, but have never shot a bullet out of them. Just powder at Reenactments.

steg

To begin with, All 2nd generation Colt percussion pistol manufacturing was under the control of a Colt Factory Quality Control team from start to finish.
All major parts, except the frames were made from Uberti rough castings. These were machine finished here in the US and then the barrels, cylinder, and cylinders were blued by Colts patented process. The frames, which were made in the US, the loading lever assembly, trigger and hammer were all heat treated (case hardened) by Colts patented process. This is quite different than the Italians who get the case hardened coloring through a cyanide chemical process. This type of color fades in a few years, whereas the actual case colors from the heating process lasts many many years. In addition, the steel that has been case hardened is tougher and stronger than steel that has been merely chemically colored.
In short, the Colt pistols have a better fit and overall are nicer appearance than any of the Italians. As far as accuracy, the only Italians that can reasonably compare are some, but not all, of the Ubertis. All other Italian replicas are strictly second rate. They do not even compare favorably with the third generation Colts.
For more information, I suggest that you get a copy of "Percussion Colt Revolvers, The Second Generation. Collectors Handbook and Guide"by Dennis Russell. The book is available directly from him. His address is: Dennis Russell C/O Jared Press, 3162 Johnson Ferry Road, Suite 260-607, Marietta, GA 30062

machine gun moran

Uberti frames are case hardened, and appear to be carburized, as opposed to being cyanided or nitrided. The carburization can be done by either the carbon-packing process or by the gas process. The case from carburization is not as hard as that which is produced by cyaniding, but it can be made much deeper, depending on the time in the packing or in the gas atmosphere. Cyaniding is better suited to hardening wear surfaces on thin parts which require extreme surface hardness but which must still maintain a non-brittle core.

Be careful of what you use to clean a carburized surface, as the colors can be blanched by certain gun-cleaning chemicals, including the chemicals that are impregnated into some gun-cleaning cloths. Many frames with nice case colors have been inadvertently turned white. [V]

bartman45

On "Pawn Stars", Rick says "they are worth more if they shoot".......

steg

quote:Originally posted by bartman45
On "Pawn Stars", Rick says "they are worth more if they shoot".......

I hate to tell you, but if you shoot a 2nd or 3rd generation Colt Percussion pistol, you destroy its collector value. If fired, they will be worth no more than a used Uberti repro of similar condition.