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chainfire question

pogybatepogybate Member Posts: 3,150
edited February 2007 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
I've been shooting my Replica Colt 44 Army Revolver for about a year now, careful to add the lubed patch over the powder to prevent Chainfire. Today I was talking to a guy who has been shooting BP Pistol for years and he told me the Chainfire only can come from the nipple end of the cylinder when an adjacent cap falls off from the concussion. Is he right?
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Comments

  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That question comes up regularly, and we seem to have several different views here in the forum. Here's an article that I go by:

    http://www.svartkrutt.net/engkjedeant.php

    I believe it to be accurate.
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  • pogybatepogybate Member Posts: 3,150
    edited November -1
    Thanks OG, guess that article should be read by all...
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for that link, oldgunner.
    I just laugh when I see so many shooters talking about what type of grease crap they put on top of the balls.
    Sure I tried it once, what a mess!
    The heyday of the cap and ball revolver was cavalry use in the Civil War. Can you imagine Jeb Stuart's troopers packing Crisco, or pork lard, all over the front of their cylinders? Might sit there in the morning, but at 4pm on a hot August day, it would melt and turn into a gooey mess.
    Crisco on top of the cylinder, one of the great fairy tales of muzzleloading.
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  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I tried grease when I first started BP shooting. It took about ten minutes to find that most of it ran down my leg from the end of the holster.

    We all owe the link to Powdersmoke. He gave it to me long ago.
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  • surbat6surbat6 Member Posts: 485 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The grease is for the purpose of keeping the fouling soft, not for preventing a multiple discharge. A tight-fitting ball (one that shaves a thin ring of lead around the chamber when rammed) seals the front of the chamber adequately.
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  • glabrayglabray Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not convinced that the experimental methods described in the article are a realistic simulation on actual firing conditions. In a revolver, the chamber being fired pushes flames and hot gasses out the cylinder-to barrel gap under high pressure. This material passes across the cylinder face and over the fronts of the adjacent chambers.
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  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I concur with surbat6, but as I said, we do have different views. Glabrays is posssibly as good as mine.
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  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    It's an opinion true but I concur with Oldgunner on this one. "IF" your cylinder is in good condition. undamaged and no grooves or pits, "IF" you use the proper size round ball, one that leaves a ring of shaved lead when seated in the cylinder and "IF" you use the proper size cap or if not using the proper size cap you seal it with some media, clear nail polish works fine. Under those circumstances; No spark can get by the seal each end of the cylinder "IF" all these criteria apply.

    From my experience the 'crisco', grease, wax or whatever, will melt out and offer no protection anyway nor will there be enough to soften fouling. It all melts away in an oily, greasey mess.
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  • 03lover03lover Member Posts: 67 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chain fire has always been a concern for many Cap & Ball Revolver shooters. The most accepted cause of chain fire has always been flame and or sparks getting around the ball in chambers other than the one being fired and setting off the other powder charges. Quite often this results in most or all of the chambers firing in what is called a chain fire.

    This has to be a darn scary thing to have happen, not good for the revolver or the shooter.

    The accepted way to prevent chain fire has been and still is to apply some form of grease or Crisco on top of the ball to seal the mouth of the chamber. There is some debate as to how affective this may be, since firing one or two chambers usually blows away the grease from the remaining chambers. BUT, to my knowledge, no chain fires have happened using this method.

    A more recent method of preventing chain fire prompted by the Cowboy Action Shooters is to use a felt wad between the powder and the ball. Some think the wad should be lubricated and others prefer it to be dry. I have found some lubed wads to be too oily and when the ball is seated firmly the oil ruins the powder charge and I get all sort of funny reports and fire going down range. I use the now hard to find Dry lubed "Ox Yoke Wonder Wads" and have since changed to 1/8" thick dry felt wads that I cut myself to save on the cost. I don't know of any chain fires using this method either.

    The first link below will take you to the "CSP" Reloading Bench Forum post that has generated a lot of discussion about chain fire and is worth reading.

    The second link below will take you to an article written by a person that put considerable effort into trying to determine how chain fire could occur. The problem with this persons method is he failed to duplicate actual firing conditions by removing the cylinder from the revolver. I suspect he removed the cylinder from the revolver to prevent destroying a good revolver. The article is worth reading but keep your mind open to the fact the tests are seriously flawed. One item this person proposes is chain fire can also occur by flame getting around loose fitting caps or missing caps that may have fallen off and cause a chain fire from the nipple end of the cylinder. This nipple end chain fire possibility is what is discussed a great deal on the "CSP" forum.

    "The Bolt Man" suggests nipple end chain fire could be possible or at least it has not been proven impossible. "Ronjo" insists nipple end chain fire is impossible but I believe his logic is flawed. These two guys cause quite a debate. In my opinion, nipple end chain fire however remote, may be possible. "The Bolt Man" plans to conduct some tests using the revolver as it should be to duplicate actual firing conditions and see if he can cause at least one or two addition chambers other than the one intended to be fired to fire in a chain fire fashion. He will be loading one chamber the normal way and the two chambers, one on either side of the intended chamber will be loaded with a full powder charge and topped with wads, the top wad will be a well lubed one to prevent chain fire from the chamber mouth. These two chambers will not have caps on them to simulate caps that have fallen off to create a worst case scenario I anxiously await the results of this test. No ball will be used other than in the chamber intended to be fired to prevent damage to the revolver or the shooter. The revolver will be a Ruger Old Army.

    http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reload/reload.pl?read=18292

    http://www.svartkrutt.net/engkjedeant.php
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a chain fire once and that was in a ratty pitted Army Colt. After replacing the cylinder with a Dixie cylinder it was fine.
    Caps used to be longer so when pressed on the nipple with a capper, the bases would spread slightly and stick. They needed to be pried off with a screwdriver or fired to come off. I'd bet they were pretty waterproof. This was in the '50s.
    In the '60s I got an early Navy Arms Remington Army.The barrel had to come back one turn to get a proper gap and bring the rammer catch back far enough for the latch to stay up when firing.
    Every chamber was out of round and undersize, I had a machine shop cut me a reamer(Forget the size)so 185 gr 45ACP RN lubed lead semiwadcutters could be started by hand and rammed without distortion. The gun shoots very,very well.
    I also did some work with nipples that ensured a good friction fit with caps.
    I haven't shot black powder in at least 25 years.
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