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Blackpowder in .45 Colt?
Leghorn88
Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
I'm thinking about handloading some blackpowder in .45 Colt cartridges. So far I've only used smokeless powder such as Unique, Tightgroup and Trail Boss. I shoot blackpowder in my Uberti 1851 Navy .36. So for the .45 Colt I would plan to use 3F blackpowder. And I presently have lubed 250 gr. hardcast .452 lead. I'll be using a New Vaquero for these loads. What's involved in handloading and shooting .45 Colt with blackpowder? Thanks.
Comments
It's usually suggested that 3F is used for C&B guns, while 2F is for cartridges. The 250gr lubed pill is fine, I like the 200gr.
Do you plan on using real BP, or one of the subs? With the real deal, fill the case enough so that when you seat the bullet, it compresses the powder. With the BP subs, refer to the data of the powder maker.
With the exception of 777, the subs usually give the same loading data as real BP. 777 is very hot, and you need to follow the charts listed on the Hodgdon web site. Don't compress it!
I've read on the SASS wire in the past, that some of the guys shooting BP in Vaqueros have trouble with the guns locking up after a couple of stages, due to the clearance of the cylinder to the front of the frame. It gets real filthy, real fast.
777 loads
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/muzzleloading/granular/t7cartridge.php
Special notes....
http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven/loadnote.php
I regularly load 38 grains of FFFg or GOEX Ctg powder in my .44-40 behind a 200 grain cast bullet. The difference between the BP and factory loads is HUGE!
Clean up is easier than most people think it is. I know a guy that pulls the grips off his stainless Rugers, and puts em in the dishwasher! [:D] Normally, soap and water will do it, then oil the hell outta everything!
I shoot 777 in my match loads, and clean all the guns with MPro7. The stuff just falls off after you spray the guns! Windex with vinegar works real good too.
Hi fellas, I'm new to your forum but have been shooting BP in SASS for a number of years.
I use a pair of AWA Peacekeepers and had been involved in the developing of the gun at one time so I have a bit of background as to the workings etc. I also test fired everything that came through at the time and was very concious of pressures etc.
We all know that Rugers take a beating like no other gun and I've owned a number of them also. As to the above quote there are a number of things that will help in this regard. First is cylinder to barrel clearence. I use 8/1000's clearence for BP shooting on my Peacekeeper. Typicaly the guns come through at 5-6/1000's and this will help in creating a bit of drag as the residue builds up.
Secong, the Ruger's cylinder bushing is cast as part of the cylinder. The AWA's, and other clones, are true to the orginal design and have a separate bushing creating two bearing surfaces which helps to keep the guns from binding. Even if the bushing got tight to the cylinder it would still spin on the base pin. Better for BP shooting.
As to the BP loads which I have researched. Government purchase orders at the time called for 255 gr. bullets with 28-32 grs of BP. Commercial loads were typicaly 35 grs.
I have used 255 gr bullets with the 35 gr loads. Not conducive to fast times in CAS but lots of fun. The ground moves. The bullets I use are pre lubed.
For competition I use two different loads. One Goex FF and the other 777. We have a smoke rule and both of these fall well within our standards in that regard.
For the FF I use 20 grs +/- by volume, a cork wad, combination bees wax/olive oil/Crisco grease cookie and a 200 gr bullet. My guns are hard chromed and visually there is very little residue and with the grease cookies they practicaly wipe clean. I use a 5-1 mix of Ballistol and Simple Green in a spray bottle and a Bore Snake. A heck of a lot easier to clean then when I shot smokeless.
For 777 I use the same combination but only load 14 grs from my 550 which makes it a bit easier then handloading the Goex but not by much.
I also shoot a micro groove Marlin and have shot 10 stages with no ill effects to the accuracy with the grease cookies I use.
I've tried it without the grease cookies aand used a filler instead but I had to clean every second stage or by the third stage I can't hit a thing.
"So if I cover the chambers with bore butter or Crisco will that work well enough?"
You don't want to do that, that is for C&B pistols. Put the lube in the case but don't use Crisco alone. It's too soft and might seep through a Grease cookie.
I buy sheets of cork from Office Depot and make my wads with a 1/2" hole punch or I buy them from Circle Fly Wads, .454. which are a bit tight and create more pressure which translates to more recoil/muzzle flip which we try to avoid as much as possible in competition. The corks are better in that regard.
One of the important things with all these loads is to make sure there are no air gaps. The wad goes tight down on the powder, the rest of the space is filled with the grease cookie and bullet.
The grease cookie keeps all the residue soft and your gun will function much better. Typicaly I shoot 50-60 rounds per shoot through them. 25-30 rounds per gun and I would feel comfortable shooting twice that many per cleaning.
Making the loads requires extra work but you get back in spades what you put into it if you want to be competitive or accurate.
I originaly used the grease cookies in my 45/70 loads and they worked well there too. You have to give up some powder in order to get them in but it's worth it.
Blacky
As an experiment, I melted the hard lube out of some regular hardcast Northeastern bullets and panlubed them with Beeswax/Crisco. That helped with the blackpowder but I still got too much hard fouling, and the cylinder bound up after about 12 shots. The lube grooves are too small. So I tried putting Crisco over every other chamber, and it worked better. That was just a temporary measure though, to try it out with blackpowder. Is it dangerous to put Crisco over the chambers? Why is this different than with shooting cap and ball? When I get the new bullets that I ordered I won't be using Crisco over the chambers anymore.
Leghorn, I don't think you followed what I do as to loading the casing.
I start by running the case through the press, sizing and putting in the primer. I then add powder and then the wad pushing it till it's tight on top of my 20 grs of Goex. I then take the casing upside down over my grease cookie mix which has hardened on a cookie sheet and I press the shell case into the mix, twist a little so the grease cookie stays in the case then I put the case back into the press, put my prelubed bullet on top and seat/crimp. I do nothing to the lubed bullet. I shoot it with whatever the manufacturer puts in the grooves. The grease cookie lubes everything to perfection and makes cleanup a snap.
BTW, my Ballistol mix with Simple Green is 5 parts Simple Green to 1 part Ballistol, not the other way around. Too much Ballisol and it has the consistancy of mayonnaise.
When you shoot C&B you put Crisco on top of the bullet mostly to stop chain firing. That is when one cylinder is fired and the others go off in sympathy due to a spark. Doesn't hurt as a lube either.
Thanks for the welcome clubslover. I get to shoot every weekend so the loads are tried and true. Never failed me.
Blacky