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How much is enough?

amsptcdsamsptcds Member Posts: 679 ✭
edited August 2007 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
How much powder of what type do you use in your percussion revolvers for .36 and .44?

The manuals for Piettas and Ubertis seem to suggest some rather light loads such as 12gr in the .36 as a max load and 15gr in the .44?

Most people use hotter loads than that safely don't they?
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Comments

  • chris_cechris_ce Member Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have never had one but I have seen a few. I would like to have one of their 1873 single action army's. Aren't some of those frames made from brass. Don't know how much they would stand upto. Shooting USA just had a program about the Uberti factory and their fine reproductions.
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  • jack85jack85 Member Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have this thing sitting in the box with some other useless stuff collecting dust for years now. Never shot it dough. Do you think that it is actually safe to shoot? It's 44 cal, says FAP - F.LLIPIETTA, Made in Italy, BP only on it.



    bp.jpg
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  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's a C&P for cap and ball revolvers.

    "The basic load for the .44 is 20 to 30 grains of 3F black powder or pyrodex and a .451 round ball. If you do not have a powder measure use a fired 38 spec. case (holds 24 gr.), a 45 acp case (holds 28 gr.) or a 9mm case (holds 12 gr.). Shorten the case to decrease volume if needed and twist paper clip wire around the case to form a handle. Fill the case to the top with powder and pour it into the chamber. The basic load for the .36 is 15 to 20 grains of 3F."

    I like 18 grains in my .36's and 27 grains in my .44's. I shoot a liitle more in my pair of TC Patriot single shot .45's. Hope this helps.
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
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  • amsptcdsamsptcds Member Posts: 679 ✭
    edited November -1
    The brass guns are safe to shoot. Mostly I have read that no one recommends using any of the conversion cylinders with them though. Brass is soft and will warp.

    I saw an old .36 frame that was a little warped to the left, but was still a fair shooter. It was probably 30 yrs old.

    I just don't like them, tho they are purdy.

    I have been using 15 gr with my .36's and 30 with the 44's. I should probably back off to 25 because there gets to be too much powder flying out to the sides, wasted.
    I used 45 gr with a 3rd model dragoon and got some of that hot powder flying around also.
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  • DocDoc Member Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a brass-framed .44 and the manual says that with a steel frame the max load is 40 grains and 30 with the brass. That's quite a difference so I guess if you max performnace spring a little extra for the steel frame. I just plink with mine so no big.
    ....................................................................................................
    Too old to live...too young to die...
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  • amsptcdsamsptcds Member Posts: 679 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
    I have a brass-framed .44 and the manual says that with a steel frame the max load is 40 grains and 30 with the brass. That's quite a difference so I guess if you max performnace spring a little extra for the steel frame. I just plink with mine so no big.


    I just shoot them at the range mostly. I go mid week when no one's around. That way I don't get too embarrassed from the caps flying off and I end up making single fire noises...

    that BP is a high explosive. I don't know about doing 40 in say a remington or opentop 60. I know that the metals used these days are better, but it would be hell on the firing line if a cylinder sidewall erupted. I have heard of it happening.

    Those dragoons and walkers are supposed to be able to handle 60gr, but I haven't tried it yet. The cylinders are huge and thick, but I'm just not sure about it.
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  • yearofspideryearofspider Member Posts: 1,657 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    1851.jpg(pic. is complimets of Cabelas)

    1851 Navy .44. I use 26 grains fff pyrodex in mine. Shoots great[:D]
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  • knightriderknightrider Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From what I have read and experanced 30 grans is the max you want to use in any 44 cal. Most of the time is will use this or 25. Also brass framed guns are ok to shoot for a time, however when the frame starts to get loose then it becomes unsafe. Your 44 Remington should be ok to shoot, but if you are unsure take it to a gunsmith and have him look over it. It is because brass is a weaker metal that I refuse to get any percussion revolvers in this metal and any 1866 Winchester. After you fiuger the cost of getting more than one of these guns because it starts to fall apart vs buying a iron one the choice seems clear.

    Knightrider
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  • sharpshooter039sharpshooter039 Member Posts: 5,897 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jack ,,I have one just like it,have fired it hundreds of times using 30grain pyrodex pistol pellots,I also have one with a 12" barrel and 3 steel frame ones,,,all are 1861 remington new army's same as yours,I like the ones with a top strap,I use the same load in them all.....if you dont want to shoot it send it to me,I'll break it in for you [;)]
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  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    I have been shooting repro' cap-n-ball revolvers for several years now. I'm not prone to likeing the brass frames but have found them to be good shooters. I would recommend a 'lighter' charge tho' as they will shoot 'loose' over time. I usually use 5grains less than manufacturers recommendation.

    About the charge used, that varies with the handgun. The 44 cal. Walker Colt would use 40-50 grains of powder, it was the first magnum load revolver and has been compared with the modern 357 magnum.

    I currently own three cap-n-ball revolvers and will usually shoot with half loads for plinking. I'll use a .457 or .454 ball with my remington and a .451 with my Colt repro's.
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  • oldfriendsoldfriends Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had read someplace (30 years ago or so) that you can not put too much Black powder (dont know about the modern replacement subsitute stuff) in a revolver. too much and you would not be able to seat the ball/bullet properly. I generally use a little less so I can put a good grease seal over each chamber.

    the large calibre, brass frame revolvers will weaken with heavy charges though. The frame may distort but the cylindar will stay together.
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  • amsptcdsamsptcds Member Posts: 679 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by oldfriends
    I had read someplace (30 years ago or so) that you can not put too much Black powder (dont know about the modern replacement subsitute stuff) in a revolver. too much and you would not be able to seat the ball/bullet properly. I generally use a little less so I can put a good grease seal over each chamber.

    the large calibre, brass frame revolvers will weaken with heavy charges though. The frame may distort but the cylindar will stay together.


    I read a book where what was discussed was how some people would just pour powder down the barrel and pack the balls in combat situations.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Original 1860 44 loads varied from 25 gr powder and a 146 gr ball to 20 gr powder and a 260 grain bullet. The heaviest combination was 30 gr powder and a 250 grain bullet. The 1860 doesn't have a large enough loading slot to seat long bullets.
    I've used 185 gr 45ACP round nosed SWC bullets with very good accuracy
    in a Remington Army by Navy Arms whose chambers were reamed to the same size (originally they weren't).
    The barrel was also screwed in a turn to allow for a closer gap and
    to bring the rammer catch closer soas not to drop it every shot.
    The bullets are friction fit in the chambers with no extra lube.
    This gun is accurate.
    Any load in a BP revolver has to be compressed. There has to be enough stroke in the rammer to compress the black powder. Too much powder is when you can't seat the bullet. You won't blow it up with 3FG BP.
    Full load velocities using RB are the high 900s for 44 and just over 1000fps for the 36 Navy.
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  • pjogrincpjogrinc Member Posts: 20
    edited November -1
    I use 20 grains of Hogdons 777 in FFF. Shoot the most accurate in my Uberti Lyman Centenial pistol and dead on.
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