Problems with a Savage Muzzleloader

westernMDhunter

I just bought a new Savage Model 10ML II 50 caliber muzzleloader and am trying to find out if anyone else owns one.I have a problem with the bolt not retracting with a primer in it, after I shoot the gun the bolt is very, very, very hard to pull back to extract the primer I have loosened up the screw in the front trigger guard to see if that was to tight on the bolt but it is not.The bolt does not retract with an unfired primer in it.Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

allen griggs

Welcome to the club! I have a Savage and it is one great rifle.
That is an unusual problem that you have. My first suggestion was going to be to loosen that bolt in the front of the trigger guard. You have me stumped.
What type of primers are you using? I know Remington primers get bad results in the Savage. I use Winchester W209 primers and get very good results.
Hang in there we will get your problem fixed and once we do you will love this rifle.

westernMDhunter

Thank you for the warm welcome. I am currntly using the Remington Kleanbore Muzzleloading 209 primers, went to a nearby gun store to purchase the Winchester primers recoomended in the manual and they stated primers are all the same size dimensions and it cannot be the primers fault. They recommended greasing the bolt where there is blueing coming off from contact with metal but that did not help.

allen griggs

Was the gun like this when new, or has this occurred after firing it a lot?

westernMDhunter

Yes it was like that straight out of the box, I purchased the gun new on Monday cleaned it before shooting it on Tuesday. I am going to go buy some winchester primers today and shoot them this afternoon and I'll get back with you to see if they correct the problem.

allen griggs

OK, I have exhausted my knowledge on this problem with the Savage.
When I said "we" would straighten this out, I meant The Savage Forum and me.
Here is the link. As you can see, I have posted your problem under "bolt won't open."
These guys know more about the Savage muzzleloader than anyone else. If your question hasn't been answered already, register and talk to them, they are great guys.
Savages just don't shoot as accurately with Remington primers. Also, I believe that those Remingtons you bought are reduced power, you don't want that with a Savage, can cause ignition problems. Smokeless is lots different from black powder or Pyrodex. One guy, on my thread over there, said "don't use Winchester primers," he is a rookie as you can tell, ignore him.
My name over there is simonkenton. Good luck, sorry I can't answer your question.

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage

westernMDhunter

Thank you so much Mr. Griggs I would have never thought that the primer was at fault I took your advice and bought the Winchester W209 primers and the problem is now resolved. No hang up on the bolt before or after the shot.Thank you so much when a guy at a gun shop tells me it is not the primer at fault I believed it but you are absolutely correct in resolving this matter the Remington primers are "JUNK" and the W209's are amazing. Again thank you for your advice on which primer to use tommorrow/Thursday/ is opening day of our three day early muzzleloader hunt and now I am set to go, without your advice I'd be wasting my vacation trying to fix this gun.

allen griggs

Glad to help.
By the way, what powder and bullet are you shooting?

westernMDhunter

I am using two 50 grain pyrodex pellets and the Powerbelt 295 grain Hollowpoints which I have used for several years in my Remington 700 muzzleloader and they shoot fine for me so I stick with them. Next year I am going to try smokeless powder in this Savage and see if I like it. This Savage shoots great excellent grouping on paper at 100 yards, could not be more satisfied looks like rain will not be a worry no more soaking the primer, again thanks for the info you provided.

westernMDhunter

Also I read the posts on the link you provided and can state that I did not incur any problems with the winchester primers at all fired 8 shots no problems, the remington primers were absolutely the problem with this gun bolt not opening properly. If you have the chance to try these junk primers I'm sure you might experience the same problems. Hopefully Savage knows about these primers and won't recommend them to anyone, in their manual it states to use Winchester primers but who would have thought Remington's would render the gun inoperable.

allen griggs

Pyrodex!?
Now that is a new one on me. Never heard of anyone starting off with their Savage with Pyrodex. Since you are using Pyrodex, why not just stick with the Remington 700?
You are in for a whole new world of muzzleloading when you try smokeless. Of course you get more power. What I really love is that you don't have to clean the rifle every time you shoot.
When you do go to smokeless you will have to kiss the Powerbelts goodbye.
They don't work with the high pressure of the smokeless powder.
Good luck with the deer hunting.
As to the primers, some primers just work in particular Savage rifles better than others. The Remingtons are known to be inaccurate, for some reason, and none of the experienced Savage guys use Remingtons. You see lots of Winchester and CCI primers used. Remingtons are not particularly known to stick, but, since it fixed your rifle, better for my advice to be lucky than good.
By the way, have you shot a deer with that 295 hollowpoint Powerbelt?
I have heard bad things about their performance on big deer.

westernMDhunter

Yes I have shot many deer with powerbelt bullets including one at 0810 this morning, dropped in its tracks,50 yard shot, great expansion of the bullet. I've heard people say they have used powerbelt bullets and they don't expand or fragment upon impact luckily I have not experienced this problem. I have not used any other muzzleloader bullets for awhile, since the good ol' days of the RENEGADE/HAWKINS. These bullets will be missed by me if they cannot be used with smokeless powder, but I'm sure there are better bullets made today. But anyway they produced a successful day today and deer bologna tastes pretty good this time of year, can't wait for it to get done at the local butcher shop.

westernMDhunter

By the way performance on big deer with powerbelts I wouldn't know anything about that Maryland ain't known for big deer like out west and in Saskatchewan or nothing, when the state of Maryland let's people shoot 10 antlerless deer with a bow, 10 with a muzzleloader, and 10 with a rifle, 2 bucks with each weapon, what do you expect. Allegany and Garrett counties are still doing there best to help ensure the deer are plentiful though, one buck and one doe with each weapon, there are some big deer left here in western Maryland but nothing like the body size of the ones out west-north. Just my opinion though.

allen griggs

So you got one with the Savage. That's great!
I didn't know if you had experience with those 295 Powerbelt hollowpoints because I know some guys on other forums with real bad results, in that the bullet just blew up on a shoulder shot and the deer got away.
But, since it works for you I will keep my mouth shut, I have never fired a Powerbelt.
Rest assured, there are plenty of great bullets available for smokeless powder. I have killed two deer with smokeless, using two different bullets, and both dropped in their tracks. It is something to see.
Welcome to the Savage club.