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Q's about muzz.loaders

1accurate11accurate1 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
I would like to know what would be the best beginner rifle for me to start with? Knight,cva,etc.. I am looking for the best for an affordable rate for a beginner,as well as the quality and weight.
Any and all opinions are very welcome..Thank you
BTW my hunting interest are primarily hog and all deer in the Eastern Oklahoma area in case that influences your opinion..

Comments

  • CubsloverCubslover Member Posts: 18,601 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The CVA Optima or Kodiak
    T/C Omega
    or New Winchester are all really nice rifles for the money.

    I have an Optima that I absolutely love. Groups @ 1" and easy to clean.
    Half of the lives they tell about me aren't true.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 34,330 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can't beat the Omega.
    It is murder on deer and hogs.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,825
    edited November -1
    It depends on how primitive you want to go ... in-line? I'd go with the T/C Omega .50 ... Percusion cap? I'd go with a Hawken.
  • 1accurate11accurate1 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I should clarify alittle.. I am interested in the latest powder equip. available.. My dislike of single shot hunting has always kept me from muzz's.. I suppose the newer rifles are fairly fast and easy to reload so that makes it more acceptable to me. Im not into trophy hunting, Im there to get meat so having more than one shot was always preferable..definitly the modern rifles are the ones im interested in!! Thanx for the all the input so far;)
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 34,330 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The old time Hawken type rifle is as easy to load, and to clean, as the modern in lines. In fact the old Hawken is easier to clean than many of the inlines.
    The Hawken is great for deer and hogs, and I have killed 6 deer and 5 hogs with a .50 Hawken with patched round ball. It is a great deer killer.
    The main advantage of the inline is that you can put a scope on it.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,825
    edited November -1
    Actually, yes, you CAN put a scope on a Hawken. When I bought mine (used) it came with the scope mounts aleady on the barrel. But I thought it just looked way too strange to see a scope on a Hawken, so I took them off! I mostly hunt in the woods, so a shot further than 100 yards would be very unlikely!

    I think long shots or low light would be the only reason to put on a scope. Or maybe to check to see if the antlers are legal size ... depending on the state regulations.

    Looks to me like "1accurate1" is going to be happier with an in-line ... so the T/C Omega 50 is the way to go.
  • mongrel1776mongrel1776 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The advantage of the in-line type of rifle lies in its ballistics, not in any speed of loading or ease of cleaning. And, so far as the ballistics go, in-line performance can be duplicated (or approached so close as to not matter) by a traditional percussion rifle with a fast-twist barrel. Ignition time on the sidelocks is slower, but the difference, assuming a GOOD sidelock, is more often a scapegoat for operator error than the actual cause of a less-than-stellar shot.

    It's worth mentioning -- since 1accurate1 indicates an interest in a muzzleloader that doesn't have the perceived drawbacks of more traditional guns -- that in-lines require every bit as much care, practice, and maintenance to use successfully as my .50 flinter that chucks roundballs only. While it hardly qualifies as a comprehensive study, I can say that, shooting and hunting in an area where you can't use centerfire rifles for deer hunting and consequently there are a fairly high number of various types of muzzleloaders in use, I've personally seen far more in-lines misfire or otherwise vex their owners, than the "traditional" guns. Flinters, incidentally, are the least trouble-free action types, in my experience. NOT because of a real or perceived superiority of one type over another, but because the guys who had trouble with their in-lines had either failed to maintain their guns or had just gotten the things and assumed they were no-hassle, no-brainer, load-and-fire propositions. No gun is, and this is several times more so for muzzleloaders. The reason the flinters are the least bothersome IN MY EXPERIENCE is, their owners knew going in the care they were going to have to take to get them to shoot reliably and accurately. Similar care taken with any other type of gun will yield similar pleasing results.

    The best beginner rifle is what your preferences and pocketbook decide on. In-lines appeal to those who prefer their more modern appearance and feel, and/or who want or need the ballistic advantages of the type. Traditional sidelocks, particularly if they're set up for more modern or allegedly efficient projectiles than the round ball (though within its range limitations, a round ball of .50 caliber or better is no slouch when it comes to killing deer), will do pretty much what an in-line will do, and will generally shoot better than the wingnut operating the machinery. There's certainly a better selection of entry-level-priced in-lines than of beginners' sidelocks.

    A recent edition of one of the black powder shooting books by either Sam Fadala or Toby Bridges might be extremely helpful. These two gentlemen have an advantage in offering advice that most of the rest of us don't -- they get to play with, test, even hunt with an incredible variety of gun makes and models, so less of what they'll tell you is liable to be hearsay or limited experience with someone else's gun.

    Good luck with whatever you end up buying. You're probably going to regret only that you didn't get into muzzleloading sooner.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 34,330 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Flinters, incidentally, are the least trouble-free action types,"

    "The reason the flinters are the least bothersome IN MY EXPERIENCE"

    ??
  • 1accurate11accurate1 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks so much for all of your opinions and suggestions.. I decided that due to wieght vs. appearance vs.cost vs.quality, to go with either the Omega or the Optima?? Now to find the best deal and Im set and off to being a black powder hunter...;) Thanks again everyone
  • mongrel1776mongrel1776 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen, all I meant by my comments was that, of the muzzleloaders I've personally used and seen used, the flinters gave the least trouble. This is in no way intended to imply that flinters are the easiest to master and use, only that the owners of the flinters I'm familiar with had taken the time necessary to master and maintain them. I was trying to make it clear that the results I'd witnessed could easily be different in someone else's experience -- because someone else would be dealing with a different assortment of guns and gun owners.

    Sorry for any confusion.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 34,330 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was just funnin' you a little.
    I understood what you meant.
    But, those two statements are contradictory.
  • mongrel1776mongrel1776 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dern! I was all set to fire you off a private e-mail, basically saying, "Huh?" because I didn't want to derail 1accurate1's thread with a quibble over wording. But then I looked harder at what I actually said, and now I have to publicly acknowledge that you're right -- what I said was contradictory. What I meant to say was that flinters are the most trouble-free, etc etc. That's what I get for posting when it's late and I'm tired.[:I]

    To reiterate my original idea, however badly-expressed -- buy the best you can afford of whatever species of front-loader you prefer. Take the time to learn to use it, and keep it in top shape. Even the more middling-quality rifles will serve you well, if you do. Even the best will fail you, if you don't.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,825
    edited November -1
    I only have four years of experience with a T/C Omega 50 and a few months with an Italian-made Hawken. Both are .50 calibre and the Omega of course is in-line and my Hawken is percussion cap.

    Yes, they are similar guns and both do shoot pretty well. My Hawken has a little bit of a hesitation when it shoots and the Omega 50 never hesitates at all. Probably the Hawken is forcing me to be a better shot - no flinching! [;)] I'm thinking that the sabots with conicals are more accurate and more impact than round ball.

    But I would say that the biggest advantage of the in-line is that weather conditions have no effect at all! Rain, fog or snow has no effect on the 209 primer in-line.

    Other than seeing others at the range with Flint locks and getting an occasional shot (because the flinters love to let others try out their stuff!) ... they do take more tinkering and every shot does have some hesitation! That is my experience of four years.

    I have no regrets about having and hunting with an Omega 50, except that it doesn't look like a gun! Does the deer care? I don't think so!

    So for a beginner muzzle loader rifle, I still say the T/C Omega 50 is the way to go. And if you do want to do more tinkering, go with a cap lock!

    Bottom line: shooting muzzle loaders is a tinkerer's sport! And if you REALLY want to tinker, go with the flint lock!

    P.S. Since I don't know the type of terrain you are hunting out in Eastern OK, I'm guessing it is longer shots than what I am doing here in the woods. So that would tip the scales again toward the in-line, which also makes it easier to put on a scope if you really need to reach out and touch something on the hoof!
  • 1accurate11accurate1 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks again,and here in Ok. its pretty brushy..I generally use a 30-30 savage (good brush gun) but there is a descent distance shot in there every great once inawhile..;) I suppose I mean 1-200yds as a long shot but hey it is Oklahoma after all...haha
    For the other responses,money isnt REALLY an obstacle but I thought that going with a mid range cost gun at first would be the best just in case I decide its not for me??I think the Optima is my ticket and I am going to buy one within the next few minutes from GB.com and I hope its the fun that Im told it is?? I appreciate all the help in this decision..Don B.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,825
    edited November -1
    Yup, you'll have a ball.

    And be careful ... I'd suggest you find some other BP shooters to give you some coaching on shooting the gun. BP is kind of a tinkerer's thing, and getting to little tricks from those more seasoned is the way to go. And it is fun, too. The BP crowd around here is a great bunch of folks.
  • sniper762sniper762 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    if price is a problem, wal-mart has the blazer .50 calibers and all necessary stuff to get started for just over a hundred bucks. they work fine.

    happy hunting

    dean
  • sniper762sniper762 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    if price is a problem, wal-mart has the blazer .50 calibers and all necessary stuff to get started for just over a hundred bucks. they work fine.

    happy hunting

    dean
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