American Pioneer Powder

Odawgp

anyone useing this stuff?

they claim to have 10,043 shots threw an encore 50cal without cleaning
and a few other stories on there site.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/index.html

elkoholic

Not using it but I'm interested to see what others have to say. Pretty amazing time between cleanings.

andersk

I bought a container of Hogden 777 and it sure works well, but it is not THAT clean! I am just fine without the sulfur smell!

I, too, am interested in hearing what others say about this new stuff.

derfhunter

Hello
I have a can of the Jim Shockeys Gold which is American Pioneer Powders premium grade powder. If all you want to do is be able to shoot a lot of times without cleaning your gun, I guess it is good for that. I tried it and it blowed my group at the range on a rest at 55 yds. out to 6+ inches in my remington 700. I went back to pyrodex without changing anything and after the first shot which was about 2-1/2 in. high, the next four shots were inside a 2" group with no cleaning between shots.

I called Pioneer powder directly about the problem and they told me I had to clean the barrel with alcahol to make sure all the oil was out of the barrel because cleaners,oil products ect will cause this problem. I cleaned the barrel to their recommendations and went back out the next day. The results were the same, over a 6" group and again switched back to the pyrodex without cleaning or anything and had the same results as thew first day. I tried it in two diffferent 50 calibers and neither one liked it

Odawgp

derfhunter,

thanks for the reply, I assumed that their statments where a bit misleading. how many times could you shoot before the groups got out to 6".

how many shots with pyrodex are you getting before the groups start to creep if at all.

while using 777 i typically spit patch between shots at the range. but have experimented with not patching and can generally count on 5-7 shots landing where i want before the groups start creeping out. I blame this on the crud ring. making it hard to get the bullet down on the powder all the way. causing varying prssures

derfhunter

So lot to mislead you, I am no expert in this field. I only get to the range 3 to 5 times a year. One of the few times I had a problem with misfires was in my earlier days and I tried the field swabbing and think that I just pushed the burnt powder residue down in front of the nipple on my hawkens, so I haven't done that since.

After my first shot, I can shoot up to 10 or 15 shots without cleaning
and my group stays in the 2 to 2-1/2" group. But recently I noticed that after 4 or 5 shots that the bullet dosen't seat down as normal, but I try to set it tighter before I shot. When the bullet starts not seating normal,say a 1/2" I normally think it is time to clean it out. I only use 100 grains of loose powder and I personally think that hotter loads tend to leave more residue, and causes more pressure if the bullet is not seated down tight. Keep in mind that 2" groups is not driving tacks or anything, but that is better than I can hold under field conditions, so that is what I live with. If you want to shoot competive, then my shooting practices are not for you.

derfhunter

I was told that their powder has a lubricant in it that when you fire a shot the powder actually lubricates the barrel. Observing the bore atfer shooting with it the barrel has a off white film in it, but not much residue. Also the bullets load a lot easier after the first shot or two. I believe this is the problem with the accuracy, as a bullet that fits tight in the riflings will be more accurate than one that fits loose. I think that if the bullet starts out of the barrel to easily, that you don't get the proper pressure to let the bullet work as it was designed. So I thing that the lubricant in the bore, left from the burnt powder hinders the accuracy of the bullets and sabots which seam to work fine with pyrodex.

derfhunter

To answer your question when I went back to the range after cleaning the barrel as recommended by the people at Pioneer powder, the first six shots out of the barrel were all over the paper. There were none of these shots within 1.5 inches of each other. The first three shots were more than 4" group, and the next three increased the group toover 6". I changed the powder charge after with no noticable results. Never did try different sabots or bullets.

Odawgp

[xx(] well I don't expect tacks, but 4" groups out to 6" is poor specially at then range. I would understand if this was in the field but at the range I exspect -2" groups


thanks again

7mmbr

I just purchased a pound of the Shockey Gold and was not even remotely impressed with it!!!! After I was positive the barrel was clean per their recommendations. I went to range in my back yard and after only 4 shots I was almost in need of a steel rebar to get the rounds (Hornady 240 grn SST) down the barrel!!!! I was bending the bullet starter shaft and then the rod. I am using this in a Knight Extreme in 50cal. I then used Alcohol Prep pads to clean the barrel between shots. I then was told by American Powder to clean only the first 6 inches of the barrel with 1 pass of a spit patch and then a dry patch. Not alot of difference. I am just about to use this pound of powder as flower bed fertilizer and go back to my 777 loosa nd be done with it.

patchnball

I use the Shockey Gold Powder. Was at the range yesterday trying to shoot the new platinum powerbelts. They were all over the paper. Using 100gr of powder. Changed back to the 245 gr. powerbelts and groups were 1.5" using the same powder charge. A lot of varibles when muzzleloading. Find the right mix and stick with it.

gskyhawk

American Pioneer Powder

10,000 shots without cleaning BULL****

its almost as bad as pyrodex for being dirty

Underdog2264

Well because of this topic, I went out today and got 2 cans, 1 shockeys gold and 1 goex pinnacle. I'll be at the range all day sunday "testing". Darn, I hate having to do that [;)] I'll post the results.

Underdog2264

Well here is what I found. I wanted to do a blind test so I had my wife load 3 flasks for me , 1 each of the Goex Pinnacle, the Shockeys Gold and Pyrodex.Only she knew the contents. I used the same rifle and bullet for all tests ( T/C New Englander and home cast .54 cal 430 grain pre lubed mini ball) and all powder loads were at 80 grain, shot from bench rest at 75 yards ( longest range I could get on a Sunday)
I shot 6 rounds with each powder flask not cleaning between shots, I cleaned only when I changed powder. Here is what I found:

Powder 1; 6 shot group of 2 1/2 inch, slight to no change in loading difficulty from first to last. 2 lubed patch and 6 dry to clean.

powder 2; 6 shot group at 1 3/4 inch, very slight change in loading difficulty, but only in the first 10 inches of barrel, seated easily after that. 1 lubed patch and 5 dry to clean.

Powder 3; 6 shot group at 1 7/8 inch, progressively harder to load, the 6th was very tight. 3 lubed patches and 8 dry to clean.

So can you guess ?

Powder 1 = Shockeys Gold
powder 2 = Goex Pinnacle
Powder 3 = Pyrodex (loose, not pellets)

I don't buy the 5000 round between cleaning, but For my money the Goex is what I would use, gave the best feel and was easy to clean. and held the best group. I will still stick to good old Black Powder for the matches,( shot a 1 1/4 4 shot group today with the same gun and load) But for throwing lead at the range the Goex is great.

7mmbr

Hey Underdog2264, have you tried the 777 loose? I went back to that after my fiasco with the Shockey Gold and the problem with the rounds being tough or impossible to load went away!! I wet patch then dry patch once between shots just like Knight recommends and all is good again. I use 110 grains with 240 SST and at 100 yds they will keep 3 inside 1-1/2" and I have 2 groups at 200yds, witnessed, that are under 2"!!! Most hover around 3-4 inches at 200yds, if I do my part.

_____________________________________________________________________
Seen the least, feared the most!!!!!!!

Underdog2264

I have yet to try 777 in a long gun. I have used it in revolvers and as pan primer in a flintlock with good results. I am having good results with the Goex Pinnacle. 4 inch group at 100 yards off hand, and 3 1/4 bench with patched 175 gr. round ball, and no cleaning between shots! Your results are impressive also, I may have to try it on the next powder buying trip.

tsr1965

About 10 years ago, American Pioneer started out life as Black Canyon, then switched to Clean Shot, now American pioneer. It was an attempt to best Pyrodex, using no sulfers in the formulation. Hodgdon has bested it with the 777 powder line.

From the get go, black Canyon, Clean Shot, and the American pioneer has had consistancy problems, and problems with attracting moisture.

my advice is go with 777 and be happy.

ral819

I agree with the loose 777. Go to this web site (www.prbullet.com )and look at the frequently asked questions. Cecil from Precision Rifle has done some comparison with 777. He has helped me alot...