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patch thickness

rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
edited December 2007 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
I have a .50 cal Cabela's Hawken with 1 in 48 twist. I am looking for some feedback on patch thickness. From what I have been told and read on this post, you have to experiment with what works best in your gun. Is there a patch thickness that more often than not will work best in most guns? Will prelubed versus split lubed make a big difference? Is there a general rule about how tight the patch and ball should fit?
Thanks
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Comments

  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    These are great questions! I have about ths same ones. I've been shooting my Omega 50 for four years, but now I am getting more primative. I have a .50 cal Hawken, too. And when I was shooting with friends the other day, he said I gotta stop using those pre-lubed patches with a real "muzzle loader!" Maybe I need to start over with a real gun![;)] I'm having fun with it!

    I should check my twist, too. I got my Italian made Hawken used; and the bore was a mess, but I think it is cleaning up OK.
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  • lonewolf5347lonewolf5347 Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Walmart has pillow patch material blue and white stripe runs .017
    excellent patch material for round balls.
    I like to use my own patch lube beeswax and lard 60/40 and a table spoon of olive oil.
    I also like using a wonder wad under the pached round ball a world of difference,my powder of choice in all my flinters is goex 3F
    wash the material first pre-cut patches lube with the beeswax and lard
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  • oldfriendsoldfriends Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have not been shooting my smoke poles for quite awhile. I used to shoot very regularly. The concensus was always to use the tightest that you could stuff down the barrel. That said, I have a .62 Sharon Hawken that worked best with a .610 RB and .020 patches (usually Ox-yoke brand) with spit. She would shoot center. I have a .54 Sharon Hawken that used a .530 RB and again .020 patches and spit. My .36 Pensylvania uses a .350 RB and .015 patches and spit. Tried several things but it generally worked out that anything at or above .50 cal would digest a .020 patch and below that a .015 patch worked well. That is if the ball used was .010 less than the bore. I tried using a .615 ball in my .62 with the .020 patches and had a hard time getting it stuffed down. had to go to a lighter patch and did not have as good of luck. Make sure you use 100 percent cotton patches too. You'll have a heck of a mess if you don't. Now, that all said you need to "read" your shot patches. After shooting a few rounds, go down range and pick up some of your used patches. Look them over and look for burns, holes and the pattern on the patch itself. Burns generally indicate it was too loose. Holes can be from the rifleing having too sharp of edges or a burr or could be from too tight a fit. generally, the fit is not too tight if you can ram the patched ball down without resorting to using a hammer or club. The pattern on the patch should be a good "cross" or "X" of even markings. As stated above, pillow ticking is great and in-expensive if you can get the right consistant thickness.
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you for the input guys. I am guess I need to be tighter. I was using a .010 patch and a .490 ball.
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  • mazo kidmazo kid Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How accurate is your rifle shooting? You will need to get a few different thicknesses of patch material and see which perform best. I don't know if a real tight patch is necessary or not; the black powder will obturate the ball into the rifling upon firing. Emery
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not exactly sure what my groupings were, but I would say 2 maybe 3 inches at 25yds. I was shooting from a bench so I am confident it was not me. I have only put 50 balls down range, so I know i have some more tinkering to do.
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  • whitebeardwhitebeard Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I shot a DGW TN Moutain Rifle, in a 50 caliber flintlock for many years. Best results I was getting was a 495 rb (yes that is 95) a .015 patch with just about any patch lube, bbl cleaner and even moose milk - and 70 grains of 2F powder. I never ever used anything but BP, no Pyrodex or other,substitutes etc. Tight load but a ball starter and a seperate hickory rod worked for me.
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  • crb4809crb4809 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What will happen if you buy material to make patches and do not wash the cloth? I have seen this several times but don't know what is the reason for washing before using.
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Hawken uses a .520 ball and a .015 patch. Gonna have to do some experimenting to see what yours likes.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just bought some blue & white pillow ticking at Wal-Mart and was wondering the same thing ... what is the scoop on washing it before using it for round ball patches?[?]
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This answer is based on information from either a previous post or from Fadala's book. (I can remember which) I have not used patching without washing it first.

    Manufacturers will put stuff on the fabric to make it look nice for the consumer. Washing will remove the added substances. Not sure what they add. Maybe starch. I would imagine that would make a sticking mess when burned.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks ... that sounds like a good enough reason for me. I'll be washing mine and then sitting around doing some cutting into circles.

    Maybe that is another question ... does cutting them in circles make patches better than square ones?
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    According to Fadala's book (chapter 18), square ones work as well as round. I personally have no experience with square patches

    Hopefully the more experience guys will confirm.
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  • rgergergerge Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been shooting a pedersoli Kentucky flint for 20 years, my best results, and this sounds crazy but it works, 80 -20 melted bees wax and extra virgin olive oil in 1.25x1.25" squares of jumbo coffee filters. I know this sounds insane, me and some friends of mine did it out of desparation years ago at our hunting camp. My gun is a .50, I use .49 RB, twist them up and dip them in the melted wax. It makes a wicked mess, but I hit my dinner plate sized target 4 out 5 times @ 100 yards. If you get really bored some day give it a try.
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What is the thickness on the coffee filters? Pretty tight fit?
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Coffee filters? Yipes ... that soungs way to thin for patches to shoot round ball. How can that get any kind of seal?
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  • mountainman16mountainman16 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can say for certain that the rifle and ball dont care what shape your patches are in so long as they cover the bottom and sides of the ball when its loaded. As far as washing the ticking before using it, that is mainly for folks, like me, who spit patch. The crap on the ticking tastes horrible!
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  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The patch needs to be a snug fit around the ball so the rifling has something to grip.Pillow ticking works great for pretty much anything. No point in getting too technical and measuring with micrometers, just use what you have, grease it up and shoot it. Take a look at the patches after firing them, they'll be a few feet in front of you someplace. They should be creased evenly, show powder marks, be complete, no tears or holes. If they look that way, you're doing right.

    This is an old post, not sure if you're still looking, but oldfriends has it straight for anyone who's still interested.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for helping me with this ... now I need to get out to the range and see what works for me and my muzzle loader guns. I love the info available on this board
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  • oldgunneroldgunner Member Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andersk, actually you didn't need any help. I can tell by your questions that you're no dummy, and you'll do just fine..[:)]
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I finally go around to trying the .015 patches today. Groups were tighter than with the 0.010 patches. I did shoot some of the 0.010 patches to see how they would group (maybe i was just shooting bad the last time I was out) and the groups were spread out.

    Also i found some of my patches. The 0.010 patches were shredded. the 0.015 were in good shape, no burn through and no rips.

    Thanks for all the reponses to this post.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Patches need to be strong material like pillow, mattress ticking, denim & linen.
    Patch needs to be tight enough that you have to use a short starter.
    Use spit patch to ease loading a fouled bore.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I used to use pre-lubed patches, but now I am doing the lube thing myself with a grease made by a friend at the club. I'm still a rooky at this BP stuff. My first Muzzle loader was a T/C Omega 50, but now I'm figuring out my used Italian made Hawken. I think she's going to be a fun gun to shoot. Just gotta remember to put in the black stuff!
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  • rja72rja72 Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Got me some .018 pillow ticking from JoAnn and cut some square patches. i will try them this weekend.

    The patch I was using as a guide for width from was supposed to be .015. i thought it was a little thin compared to the ticking so i miced it. It was only .012. Got to checking all the different patches I had. All were not what they claimed to be. Some of the .010 were only .007! No wonder they were being blown out.
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  • sniper762sniper762 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    try the polypatches, i loved them
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So far I have not seen any difference between my round and my square patches. So why make life moe difficult by cutting round ones! [:D]
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  • OregunnerOregunner Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by andersk
    So far I have not seen any difference between my round and my square patches. So why make life moe difficult by cutting round ones! [:D]


    That is good news. Thanks, I was hoping that would be the case.
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